More Michigan Cheating

Across The Field said:
Then what the hell are you even arguing?
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Because there are no two valid claims here. There is one, in person scouting. Either Michigan is guilty or not guilty of in person scouting.

We also don't really know if they're able to prove anything, and maybe the only thing they can prove is that some analyst on Michigan bought tickets, but didn't attend personally, games himself.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
During games, that your team is hosting. The entire thing has to do with the responsibility and legality for the home field team in what they can and cannot do.

If Michigan broke an NCAA rule, it's in person scouting. It isn't double illegal because he used a phone to do it.
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I will assume for the sake of argument that you are correct that it doesn't matter that they were videoing the signals. The reason that they rule exists is so that people don't get an advantage by seeing the plays and signals. Let's say how you do it doesn't matter. You've admitted the violated the first rule. That they then used that information to gain a competitive advantage doesn't have to be a second offense ... it will be used in sentencing for the first violation. "Not only did Michigan gain an unfair advantage by simply scouting the games of its opponents, we have clear proof that they took that information and used it to steal signs for an even great competitive advantage."

You have conceded your team cheats. You are simply arguing a technicality that the form of our cheating isn't actually covered by a rule because we did it at a game we weren't allowed to be at, not at a game we were allowed to be at.

If you think that's a winning argument, you are dumber that Stallion and your cheating program. Congrats.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
If you have read what I wrote OVER AND OVER. I said everyone has a guy whose job on the sidelines is to try and steal signs DURING THE GAME. I said, what this guy did is wrong and IF it is found that Harbaugh knew of it or encouraged it -- he should be fired.

I think the SEC short video sums it up perfectly. It is a joke to think any major program would be aware of a staffer doing such a thing and BLANTANTLY leave a paper trail of ticket purchases with HIS OWN PERSONAL CREDIT CARD, public venmo payments, while not using a hidden high def camera to get video, but instead using a cell phone.

If this was some elaborate scheme put on by Harbaugh and Michigan -- don't you think they would have even slightly tried to hide it? This would be like back in the day -- when teams had bag men paying players, instead of cash, they would send it to them on their public Venmo and write underneath it, "payment to attend University of 'fill in the blank'".

What has come out thus far screams Harbaugh knew nothing about this, as nothing was done to even try to hide it. That being said -- Harbaugh is the one responsible for his staff, so if he hired this moron, he will be punished for it.
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You think Harbaugh is so dumb that he isn't involved in the decision to have a guy stand next to his coordinators with a stack of laminated cards that have the other team's signals and not, at some point, say who the fuck is this guy, and where did he get that info? You really want us to believe that? That this guy went rogue and no one wondered why all the sudden we have a dozen players jumping up and down making some signal to your team based on the other team's signals? You want us to believe that? You know that they have to practice all that, right? So during practice, no one in charge said, what the hell is that group over there doing jumping up and down and making signs to our teams? Now who's naive?
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I will assume for the sake of argument that you are correct that it doesn't matter that they were videoing the signals. The reason that they rule exists is so that people don't get an advantage by seeing the plays and signals. Let's say how you do it doesn't matter. You've admitted the violated the first rule. That they then used that information to gain a competitive advantage doesn't have to be a second offense ... it will be used in sentencing for the first violation. "Not only did Michigan gain an unfair advantage by simply scouting the games of its opponents, we have clear proof that they took that information and used it to steal signs for an even great competitive advantage."

You have conceded your team cheats. You are simply arguing a technicality that the form of our cheating isn't actually covered by a rule because we did it at a game we weren't allowed to be at, not at a game we were allowed to be at.

If you think that's a winning argument, you are dumber that Stallion and your cheating program. Congrats.
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I didn't admit anything. I said this is entirely about in person scouting. Which was banned because of equity concerns, IE poor programs couldn't afford to pay scouts to go around the country.

As I said early on, I think Michigan (or some faction of the staff) operated within the rules, albeit a grey area within the rules, to send unaffiliated people to other games to get information on teams. If what's being accused turns out to be true. After all, we are operating entirely on unsubstantiated accusations at this point.

If Michigan is ruled to have cheated by the NCAA, I would question to what level the information gathered was actually an advantage. Because we've already established 1. Sign stealing is legal 2. Sign stealing is common and 3. Teams do a lot to try and block it, change it up and prevent sign stealing. So how much MORE information about signs did Michigan gain vs. the average amount known? And what real advantage would it have on signs that continue to change/be modified?

When Ohio State comes out and says things like this:

ohio state.png


The quantifiable advantage is minimal.
 
Sounds like ole boy Stallions is a little loony in the head

Stalions, now 28, revealed that he was part of a small group of people—two of whom he said were at low-level positions on different college football coaching staffs—who were putting their heads together on a long-term plan to run the Michigan football program. Stalions claimed to have a Google document between 550 and 600 pages long that he managed daily, containing a blueprint for the Wolverines’ future. He referred the document as a movement more than a plan, dubbing it “the Michigan Manifesto.”
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osubuckeye89 said:
Sounds like ole boy Stallions is a little loony in the head
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I agree on this point. The information I've seen is that he was some weird version of a superfan, just randomly standing outside of the facilities in like 2014-on. And somehow worked his way into volunteering in some ways at the program
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
I agree on this point. The information I've seen is that he was some weird version of a superfan, just randomly standing outside of the facilities in like 2014-on. And somehow worked his way into volunteering in some ways at the program
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It's beyond weird, it's insane and obsessive.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
It's beyond weird, it's insane and obsessive.
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He probably has some version of autism. He is clearly very good at code breaking.

Which again...mics. This is beyond stupid. Fuck Louisiana Monroe if they can't afford mics (which is absurd considering high school programs have them)
 
What I have learned so far from this thread is that Jim Harbaugh is innocent and Kirby Smart is cheating.
 
stakesarehigh said:
He probably has some version of autism. He is clearly very good at code breaking.

Which again...mics. This is beyond stupid. Fuck Louisiana Monroe if they can't afford mics (which is absurd considering high school programs have them)
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He's bad at fucking covering his tracks. I mean, personal venmo with your real name? WTF Stallions. How did he graduate from a military academy? All the dude had to do is give someone cash to buy the tickets. That's it. Problem solved. No traceable line. Probably what every other program does. But noooo. Venmo? And fucking public venmo at that?
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
He's bad at fucking covering his tracks. I mean, personal venmo with your real name? WTF Stallions. How did he graduate from a military academy? All the dude had to do is give someone cash to buy the tickets. That's it. Problem solved. No traceable line. Probably what every other program does. But noooo. Venmo? And fucking public venmo at that?
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Seems they used the same amount of vetting they used for Shemmy for this guy "Oh you were in the Marines? That means you'll be great at this covert spy stuff!"
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Seems they used the same amount of vetting they used for Shemmy for this guy "Oh you were in the Marines? That means you'll be great at this covert spy stuff!"
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"Hey Jim, that weirdo is standing outside again. Think we should give him a job?"
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
"Hey Jim, that weirdo is standing outside again. Think we should give him a job?"
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Lol I was gonna say, normal people's reaction to some obsessive weirdo approaching them with a 600 page "manifesto" would be to call security. Harbaugh decided to hire him.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Lol I was gonna say, normal people's reaction to some obsessive weirdo approaching them with a 600 page "manifesto" would be to call security. Harbaugh decided to hire him.
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osubuckeye89 said:
Man i'd be pissed if I was a Michigan fan that this nut job might ruin Michigan's best 3 season run in a long time.
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I don't think it's going to do anything. That said, the more I see the more I think this nut case would be someone who would operate on his own without others potentially knowing his nut case plans
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
He's bad at fucking covering his tracks. I mean, personal venmo with your real name? WTF Stallions. How did he graduate from a military academy? All the dude had to do is give someone cash to buy the tickets. That's it. Problem solved. No traceable line. Probably what every other program does. But noooo. Venmo? And fucking public venmo at that?
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Every other program doesn't cheat like you did. You Michigan guys have to stop saying that "everyone does this." No, that is why everyone is talking about this. No one does this.

Also, this would have come out at some point. People talk. Someone on VolQuest posted they knew about this almost a year ago because someone who was paid to go to the games and video them started talking. You can't do what they did as publically as they did and not get caught at some point.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Every other program doesn't cheat like you did. You Michigan guys have to stop saying that "everyone does this." No, that is why everyone is talking about this. No one does this.

Also, this would have come out at some point. People talk. Someone on VolQuest posted they knew about this almost a year ago because someone who was paid to go to the games and video them started talking. You can't do what they did as publically as they did and not get caught at some point.
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I'm starting to think every program cheats just like us, but they don't have nutjobs writing 600 page manifestos running the operation.
 
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