- Joined
- Sep 15, 2020
- Posts
- 16,645
- Reaction score
- 13,474
- Bookie:
- $ 500.00
Whole lotta gay, nuff said
Oklahoma fans ... this won't work in the SEC
- Thread starter WhosYourDawggy
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
My bad ... didn't put it in proper perspective.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 2,065
- Reaction score
- 4,414
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Quick question: Georgia, Texas and Alabama are ahead of OU in this year's recruiting rankings. So in theory you would expect them to have an edge in talent and maybe an advantage on the playing field if everything stayed the same. (I'm discounting coaching here.) Why is aTm nowhere to be found in this year's recruiting rankings? Texas A&M is loaded for bear with talent so I'm sure they are going to be more than fine but (a) why the drop off this year so far and (b) what would happen if for some reason aTm whiffed on this year's recruiting or, more likely, lost a significant amount of the incredible talent they have already signed? Is the difference between feast and famine in the SEC that narrow?
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
- Because it's the 1st of August and ESD is the second week of December. By average, they are 2nd in the nation. They are in on a ton of uncommitted top 100 players. Right now they simply don't have volume.
- They may be keeping their powder dry. I've likened it to an eBay auction ... you don't start making all your bids on the first day. You wait until the last minute, even seconds, and then make your bids. If they are 100% all-in on pay-for-play like they were last year, you wouldn't expect them to start until later.
- There are rumors that some of the promises haven't been followed up on and the recruits aren't happy. That is getting out to this year's recruits.
- It may be that the NCAA cracked down on them. It's been reported that UTjr's collective was told to stand down after the $8 million QB purchase, and after the NCAA came calling.
That would be my list for why.
As long as there are divisions, Saban, and a 4 team CFP, ATM has to go through Bama. That's tough. As long as Bama is getting no. 1 classes year in and year out, if you want to compete you better be top 3 or it isn't going to happen, IMO.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 26,564
- Reaction score
- 29,568
- Bookie:
- $ 5,435.00
- Location
- Sitting in Houston Traffic....
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 12,865
- Reaction score
- 16,405
- Bookie:
- $ 13,141.00
I was told Dabo and Venables couldn’t recruit
fordman84
Administrator
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2020
- Posts
- 45,127
- Reaction score
- 82,265
- Bookie:
- $ 140,167.00
I think there might have been a bit of enjoying the spotlight, but A&M is doing well in recruiting for 2023. We just landed our first 5 star. I expect we will climb the board and finish with another top 10 recruiting class, hopefully top 5. We don't have the kind of school that we can go 3 deep with 5 stars so this last years big class will affect 2023 since kids won't want to sit like they would at A&M.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2020
- Posts
- 1,735
- Reaction score
- 1,951
- Bookie:
- $ 182,000.00
Yup, as I have been saying literally my only concern about Brent Venables is that he might be too good of a guy for this job. We are going to find out.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,813
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
LOL...I thought the same thing.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,813
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
I think it's safe to say that recruiting is at least 80% of winning a national championship (5% is luck and not getting too many key injuries and 15% is on-the-field coaching). Nobody in over 20 years has won a national championship that didn't have a top 10 class within at least 4 years of winning it and the vast majority have had multiple and top 5. I don't want to actually do the research because that would be a pain but I would be willing to be no one in the last 10 years has won it that didn't have multiple top 10 classes in the 4 years prior to winning.
Coaches aren't paid the money they are getting paid for being great x's and o's guys they are being paid in the college ranks for having the ability to get talent period. There aren't many assistant coaches that keep their job that can't recruit it's that important.
Case in point: Saban has been the best CFB coach over the last decade by a long shot and the only way to beat them is to out-coach them on the field because that is their weakness. You aren't going to out-talent Bama, the best you are going to do is match up decently with them.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,813
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
A lot of it depends on what they need and if they don't need as many skilled positions and are recruiting more heavily for linebackers, linemen and secondary those guys don't tend to get the star ratings that QBs, receivers, running backs, and pass rushers get. It's not uncommon for a team to slide a year after killing it (except for teams like Alabama who tend to get their recruits extra stars just because they signed them).
Also, aTm might not be asking some guys not to publicize their commitment because they don't want to scare other people off or they are in the mix for a 5-star they feel great about but haven't given a verbal. Another factor is they might not have as many scholarships to give out this year so if they only have 18 spots then their ranking will fall just because of that. With the NIL they are spreading around they should close extremely well and make up ground. Rankings right now are worthless.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
No one ever said that. But carry-on.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
I did the research for you but did a bad job of labeling my chart. This shows the last 9 NCs, and the recruiting rankings for the 4 years before they won the NC. I might redo it to include the class in the year they won it because those players are on the team but rarely contribute. Having said that, we had a couple of true freshmen that made a difference - Bowers and AD Mitchel come to mind - who are not included.
Still, this does show that you have to do some serious recruiting to win.
- The exception is Clemson, for sure. Hopefully, the Clemson folks can chime in and explain what made the teams different. Off the top of my head, both Clemson teams had future no. 1 NFL QBs, and I know that the 2016 team had a ton of seniors, really good seniors, who chose to come back for their last year.
I will also point out that if you look at Clemson's classes, while they are not ranked high that's often due to taking small classes loaded with really highly rated prospects. Take their 2018 class that was ranked 7th. Bad year? Hell no ... they had five 5*, and they were no. 4 by average. They just took 17 commits and that hurt them. 2017 was even weirder ... they only took 14 commits, and were ranked 16th. But they were 3rd by average with two 5*. This is a result of Dabo's strategy of not processing players and having an experienced team. It's risky ... your evals better work out, and you better avoid injury, but it can work.
- LSU had also had a future no. 1 QB, and that 2016 class ended up with about 14 NFL draftees. I don't think we can give coach O any credit for being an Xs and Os type of coach.
- UGA, Bama, tOSU, LSU, and FSU all had great recruiting leading up to the natty.
But at the same time it's nice having good playing retention which gives a team more experience, depth and getting key players like the ETN, the Dline of 2018 and etc to skip the draft despite having good draft grades. There's two sides to this. Even if Dabo/Venables switch their approach and let recruits visit while commited, would they really rank any higher in the recruiting classes?
Also remember talent isn't everything, looking below UGA fans should already know this lol. If Florida, LSU, Auburn, Missouri can manage then I'm sure Clemson/OU will be ok.
2020 Florida (SEC East champs) - 7th overall - 4th SEC
2019 LSU (SEC champs) - 5th overall - 3rd SEC
2017 Auburn (SEC West champs) - 8th overall - 4th SEC
2016 Florida (SEC East champs) - 16th overall - 8th SEC
2015 Florida (SEC East champs) - 15th overall - 7th SEC
2014 Missouri (SEC East champs) - with classes in the 30s , 40s
2013 Missouri (SEC East champs)
Clemson's Team talent composite:
Year OV - ACC - SEC
2015 - 13th - 2nd - 7th
2016 - 9th - 2nd - 6th
2017 - 9th - 2nd - 5th
2018 - 6th - 2nd - 3rd
2019 - 9th - 2nd - 4th
2020 - 4th - 1st - 3rd
2021 - 4th - 1st - 3rd
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
In numerous posts I've always given credit to Dabo that his culture enables him to have more senior teams. That works if those older players are good. It is what won you the 2016 natty for sure. The only problem is that teams who manage their rosters more aggressively also have good culture, at least Bama, UGA, and tOSU. We can agree that LSU didn't.
No one says talent is everything, but it's the most important thing. The fact that you have had the most talent in the ACC certainly has been beneficial in building up your team. Agreed?
No one said you had to be no. 1 in talent. But as my chart shows you have to be in the top 5-ish year in and year out. Your team being the exception. You've picked the exceptions in the SEC which actually disprove your point ... the one constant has been Bama who show without a doubt if you get top classes and have good coaching you are going to be a winner more often than not. The teams you listed were teams that didn't recruit consistently and their results show it. And most of those teams you list won divisions and didn't win the SEC or the NC. If your point is that Clemson could win an SEC division from time to time with their level of recruiting, I am assuming that would not be a good thing.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 11,068
- Reaction score
- 17,037
- Bookie:
- $ 42,955.00
just shows that college football is slowly, but surely becoming a regional sport
Correct, both ways can work. That's the point. You insist that Dabo is limiting his roster by the way he recruits but at same time his team is 4th overall in talent. Not sure how that couldn't work in the SEC
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 12,865
- Reaction score
- 16,405
- Bookie:
- $ 13,141.00
Not to mention, Dabo has beaten all the top sec teams.
So as long as talent is concentrated in only a few schools, there is little chance we’ll have a wider range of national champs, right? Wouldn’t a broader distribution of talent make the entire season more exciting? Will NIL payments help distribute talent more widely?