RIP Bill Russell

[HammerDown]

Looking through baskelball-ref.com, I guess there is a defensive metric. Surprisingly(haha), Russell was 1st in the league for all but 1 year between 56 and 69

In an 8 team league against 6' 1" white guys named Harold.

 

[HammerDown]

If you want to call defense an intangible...

Yep, that's what I thought. "Despite what the numbers say, he was great. Trust me."

 

[Kburjr]

In an 8 team league against 6' 1" white guys named Harold.

Still the greatest of his time. Wilt played against the same guys

 

[ojb81]

In an 8 team league against 6' 1" white guys named Harold.

apparently according to hammer, if your name isn't "devonte" or "lemarcus" or "deondre", then you're simply worthless as a basketball player

 

[Kburjr]

In an 8 team league against 6' 1" white guys named Harold.

Like Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, oh and some dude named Wilt Chamberlain

 

[HammerDown]

Like Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, oh and some dude named Wilt Chamberlain

Would you care to check his record vs that caliber of player? (hint: I don't recommend it if you're a Bill Russell fan)

 

[NinerSpartan]

It’s a hot dog, not a steak, they’re for kids in general. I don’t remember the last time I just craved a hot dog. I might cook a hotdog if I want something quick for supper and I’m out of Captain Crunch. Cheese stuffed Oscar Mayer wieners, ketchup and mayo. The only way to eat one. If I’m gonna sauté onions for a tube steak, it’s gonna be a brat

i never crave a hot dog, tbh. if i ever eat a hot dog is because i'm at a social event and that is why they're serving

 

[HammerDown]

apparently according to hammer, if your name isn't "devonte" or "lemarcus" or "deondre", then you're simply worthless as a basketball player

Thurl Bailey > Bill Russell

 

[DragonFromTo]

Looking through baskelball-ref.com, I guess there is a defensive metric. Surprisingly(haha), Russell was 1st in the league for all but 1 year between 58 and 69

"Prior to the 1973-74 season, the NBA did not track defensive rebounds, steals, or blocks, so allocating defensive credit is a difficult task."

NBA Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

Description of Basketball Win Shares

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[ojb81]

Thurl Bailey > Bill Russell

false

 

[Kburjr]

"Prior to the 1973-74 season, the NBA did not track defensive rebounds, steals, or blocks, so allocating defensive credit is a difficult task."

NBA Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

Description of Basketball Win Shares

www.basketball-reference.com

I read it. If you get to the conclusion of the article, it states that the results come within error margins by totally close to the teams records.

 

[Kburjr]

Way too much recency bias up in here.

 

[DragonFromTo]

I read it. If you get to the conclusion of the article, it states that the results come within error margins by totally close to the teams records.

I'm not saying that the general results are completely misleading/wrong but it seems like it introduces additional issues for a metric that is probably not without its issues already.

 

[Kburjr]

Saw a neat piece of history while surfing thre the ref site. For one year, there was a team named the Chicago Packers. Eventually became the Baltimore Wizards

 

[Kburjr]

I'm not saying that the general results are completely misleading/wrong but it seems like it introduces additional issues for a metric that is probably not without its issues already.

Without full play by play stats that baseball has, they will never eliminate questions. You can only set up statistical models that seem to work.

 

[Rex Racer]

At 6'9" Russell was one of the shortest starting centers in the NBA during his career while Wilt was routinely 2, 3 or 4 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier than his opponents. If Chamberlain was only 6'9" he'd be the tallest insurance salesman you ever met.

Am I doing this right?

 

[Kburjr]

At 6'9" Russell was one of the shortest starting centers in the NBA during his career while Wilt was routinely 2, 3 or 4 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier than his opponents. If Chamberlain was only 6'9" he'd be the tallest insurance salesman you ever met.

Am I doing this right?

Yeah, I think so.

Bill Russell was the Tom Brady of basketball. Not always the best player in the game but he was the greatest winner.

 

[DragonFromTo]

Without full play by play stats that baseball has, they will never eliminate questions. You can only set up statistical models that seem to work.

At first glance it seemed like the way they do it gives him the credit because the Celtics played great team defense and he played a ton and got the most rebounds. Does he deserve a good deal of the credit for the Celtics' great team defense? For sure. Does the number produced by the formula used properly reflect this? I think there's probably some doubt.

I'd be curious to see how his Celtics teammates scored in defensive win shares using that method.

 

[ojb81]

Yeah, I think so.

Bill Russell was the Tom Brady of basketball. Not always the best player in the game but he was the greatest winner.

OHHHH-HO-HOOHHHHH NOW YOU DUN GON' 'N DID IT!!!

 

[Kburjr]

At first glance it seemed like the way they do it gives him the credit because the Celtics played great team defense and he played a ton and got the most rebounds. Does he deserve a good deal of the credit for the Celtics' great team defense? For sure. Does the number produced by the formula used properly reflect this? I think there's probably some doubt.

I'd be curious to see how his Celtics teammates scored in defensive win shares using that method.

It is impossible to measure individual contributions in a sport where defense is a team effort moreso than an individual effort. The Celtics may have been able to play their style of defense merely because of what Russell could do inside and therefore his rating is undervalued. Too many ifs and buts.