So NIL wasn't enough?

[Goldbug]

Giving yourself and your labor over for four years for the promise of something better when having little choice otherwise in that ‘field.’
Yup. Indentured servitude is the proper analogy.

OK. So it was indentured servitude but without all those pesky yokes, chains and humiliating slave auctions. How about the ideas being thrown around to make these suddenly emancipated serfs at least show a modicum of effort towards getting a degree, staying out of legal trouble and requiring them to stick with a decision to play at a school once it's been made unless there are extenuating circumstances like their head coach leaves the program? Are these ankle high guardrails asking too much?

 

[ELTEXAN]

OK. So it was indentured servitude but without all those pesky yokes, chains and humiliating slave auctions. How about the ideas being thrown around to make these suddenly emancipated serfs at least show a modicum of effort towards getting a degree, staying out of legal trouble and requiring them to stick with a decision to play at a school once it's been made unless there are extenuating circumstances like their head coach leaves the program? Are these ankle high guardrails asking too much?

You’re admittedly specious argument aside, those guardrails that would ensure the sustainability of the league would be there now, having been settled naturally by course, if the monopsony of the ncaa didn’t exist and dictate that the principals get NOTHING.
I feel like I’m repeating myself… because I am. I’m fact, I’m repeating the same thing you just replied to.

 

[Goldbug]

You’re admittedly specious argument aside, those guardrails that would ensure the sustainability of the league would be there now, having been settled naturally by course, if the monopsony of the ncaa didn’t exist and dictate that the principals get NOTHING.
I feel like I’m repeating myself… because I am. I’m fact, I’m repeating the same thing you just replied to.

Nothing. As in playing for no benefits at all? Just playing for the hell of it or chump change? Not even an education, nourishment and future opportunities non athletes would die for? And leaving college without any debt? That kind of "nothing"? Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they were getting something very valuable if they weren't total morons and threw it all away and now they're getting a pile of money too on top of the "nothing" they were getting before?

 

[ELTEXAN]

Nothing. As in playing for no benefits at all? Just playing for the hell of it or chump change? Not even an education, nourishment and future opportunities non athletes would die for? And leaving college without any debt? That kind of "nothing"? Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they were getting something very valuable if they weren't total morons and threw it all away and now they're getting a pile of money too on top of the "nothing" they were getting before?

You’re filling in the analogy quite well.
“Nothing. No benefit. No meals and living quarters and a chance to learn a skill like raising crops,”

 

[fordman84]

Equating playing a game in exchange for food, shelter, education, and chance at playing the game professionally to the misery of human slavery is one of the shittiest things I've seen outside of the PF in a while.

 

[ELTEXAN]

Equating playing a game in exchange for food, shelter, education, and chance at playing the game professionally to the misery of human slavery is one of the shittiest things I've seen outside of the PF in a while.

Notice the lack of argument. Just pure accusation and insult. Cool. It’s all the rage with genz. We’re all used to it.

The only proper and closest analogy to the ncaa all these decades is indentured servitude. Period. Stop.

 

[fordman84]

Notice the lack of argument. Just pure accusation and insult. Cool. It’s all the rage with genz. We’re all used to it.

The only proper and closest analogy to the ncaa all these decades is indentured servitude. Period. Stop.

What do you want me to provide as an argument? In one scenario a human makes a choice to do something and are free to quit at any time. In the other, humans are forcefully ripped from their homeland and forced to work in mostly barbaric conditions no matter if they want to or not.

It's not at all a proper analogy.

 

[ELTEXAN]

What do you want me to provide as an argument? In one scenario a human makes a choice to do something and are free to quit at any time. In the other, humans are forcefully ripped from their homeland and forced to work in mostly barbaric conditions no matter if they want to or not.

It's not at all a proper analogy.

Indentured servitude isn’t “ripped from their homeland.” If you’re going to make specious arguments, get your facts correct first.

You have to put your body blood sweat labor on the line for years. You can’t get money from the outside; you can’t even accept food from the outside. You work your ass off on the practice field and weight room hours per day.
You do that all for the promise of something better: a tiny chance at the nfl or mostly a sports medicine degree.
All the while the entities who rule and own you for those few years make billions off your labor sweat, and they get to own you because they set up the industry as a monopsony that makes all the rules to purposefully keep you disenfranchised and poor.

See? That’s not a specious argument. That’s an argument that gets at the actual things going on.

There’s no better analogy to describe the above than indentured servitude.

 

[fordman84]

Indentured servitude isn’t “ripped from their homeland.” If you’re going to make specious arguments, get your facts correct first.

You have to put your body blood sweat labor on the line for years. You can’t get money from the outside; you can’t even accept food from the outside. You work your ass off on the practice field and weight room hours per day.
You do that all for the promise of something better: a tiny chance at the nfl or mostly a sports medicine degree.
All the while the entities who rule and own you for those few years make billions off your labor sweat, and they get to own you because they set up the industry as a monopsony that makes all the rules to purposefully keep you disenfranchised and poor.

See? That’s not a specious argument. That’s an argument that gets at the actual things going on.

There’s no better analogy to describe the above than indentured servitude.

Ok, so you stopped calling it slavery and pivoted to indentured servitude.

Tell me, could indentured servants quit whenever they wanted and walk away without anything owed? C
Can a player in the NCAA walk away at any time without anything owed?

 

[ELTEXAN]

Ok, so you stopped calling it slavery and pivoted to indentured servitude.

Tell me, could indentured servants quit whenever they wanted and walk away without anything owed? C
Can a player in the NCAA walk away at any time without anything owed?

Lmao. Ive used the term Indentured Servitude on this forum a literal hundred times plus when discussing this.

But you want to make another specious argument, sometimes indentured servants could leave and go back home, but sometimes not.

It doesn’t chNge the fact that the NON specious elements here are the same.

I’ll repeat it for the fourth time now in a row: there is no better, more accurate analogy to the ncaa all these decades than indentured servitude.

You going on about the specious elements is laughable: “well, they don’t pick crops.”

No Timmy, they don’t lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick crops and wear rags provided by their would be masters. They lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick sixes and wear jerseys provided by their would be masters.

Jesus.

 

[Goldbug]

Ok, so you stopped calling it slavery and pivoted to indentured servitude.

Tell me, could indentured servants quit whenever they wanted and walk away without anything owed? C
Can a player in the NCAA walk away at any time without anything owed?

Drop it, @fordman84. This dumbass doesn't even know the difference between Total Revenue and Net Earnings. Those little things like operating expenses (salaries, scholarship costs, travel, uniforms, debt service, etc., etc.) go completely over his head. All he sees is the money coming in and he thinks it's pretty much all pure profit that went into whose hands? I know the coaches are paid too much money but "billions" were squirreled away in someone's pocket according to the tea sipper.

 

[fordman84]

Lmao. Ive used the term Indentured Servitude on this forum a literal hundred times plus when discussing this.

But you want to make another specious argument, sometimes indentured servants could leave and go back home, but sometimes not.

It doesn’t chNge the fact that the NON specious elements here are the same.

I’ll repeat it for the fourth time now in a row: there is no better, more accurate analogy to the ncaa all these decades than indentured servitude.

You going on about the specious elements is laughable: “well, they don’t pick crops.”

No Timmy, they don’t lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick crops and wear rags provided by their would be masters. They lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick sixes and wear jerseys provided by their would be masters.

Jesus.

Ok, well be a dolt if you want. Congrats on finding "specious" as your word of the day toilet paper.

 

[fordman84]

Drop it, @fordman84. This dumbass doesn't even know the difference between Total Revenue and Net Earnings. Those little things like operating expenses (salaries, scholarship costs, travel, uniforms, debt service, etc., etc.) go completely over his head. All he sees is the money coming in and he thinks it's pretty much all pure profit that went into whose hands? I know the coaches are paid too much money but "billions" were squirreled away in someone's pocket according to the tea sipper.

Yup. It was my mistake trying to engage someone who is only looking to pass off some edgy conversation he heard from someone much smarter as his own. But he lacks the ability to actually discuss it. I know better, I'll be better.

 

[ELTEXAN]

Yup. It was my mistake trying to engage someone who is only looking to pass off some edgy conversation he heard from someone much smarter as his own. But he lacks the ability to actually discuss it. I know better, I'll be better.

The Supreme Court agrees with this edgy take.
Y’all would never accept this in any other industry, but ONLY because it’s the status quo… you support it.

 

[fordman84]

The Supreme Court agrees with this edgy take.
Y’all would never accept this in any other industry, but ONLY because it’s the status quo… you support it.

I don't support anything other than calling you out for insinuating these student athletes are in any way similar to slaves or indentured servants.

 

[Rolltide94]

Lmao. Ive used the term Indentured Servitude on this forum a literal hundred times plus when discussing this.

But you want to make another specious argument, sometimes indentured servants could leave and go back home, but sometimes not.

It doesn’t chNge the fact that the NON specious elements here are the same.

I’ll repeat it for the fourth time now in a row: there is no better, more accurate analogy to the ncaa all these decades than indentured servitude.

You going on about the specious elements is laughable: “well, they don’t pick crops.”

No Timmy, they don’t lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick crops and wear rags provided by their would be masters. They lay their blood sweat bones labor for years to pick sixes and wear jerseys provided by their would be masters.

Jesus.

Somebody has made too many tackles with their head.

 

[Rolltide94]

The Supreme Court agrees with this edgy take.
Y’all would never accept this in any other industry, but ONLY because it’s the status quo… you support it.

Like I've said before when you get on this tangent...engineers...4 years of practical hourly apprentice wages before they can even write the engineering exam...all after at least 4 years of a college education.

Same with Doctors...Plumbers...Electricians...

All apprenticeships in which you are not paid like a full professional, but you do the work of a full professional under supervision.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Giving yourself and your labor over for four years for the promise of something better when having little choice otherwise in that ‘field.’
Yup. Indentured servitude is the proper analogy.

Nah, it really isn't. I think there is a middle ground here. First, the idea the players haven't received anything in return for their labor is insulting to anyone who ever paid tuition. Getting tuition, room, board, the nutrition they get, a shot at the NFL, and then the connections they get from their school for later in life has a ton of value. It's definitely in the mid 6 figures.

That said, now that the sport generates billions of dollars there is no reason not to let them make money of their NIL. We can argue all day how that is being handled, but the idea they should remain amateurs and not make money is absurd. They're labor generates billions in TV revenue and fan support ... they should be able to make money off of what they helped create. If we can work out the kinks of NIL, that's a great way to go.

Finally, to those who think the NCAA and the schools are rolling in money, they aren't. Most of the money that NCAA football and basketball generates goes to fund other athletes that can't generate that level of income. I suppose that the football and basketball players and their supporters can argue "tough, let them fend for themselves if their sport can't make money." I don't like that, but they could take that position. But, at the end of the day both the NCAA and the schools spend what they make on the athletes themselves in the form of facilities that they love, nutrition, etc. The top coaches make a lot of money, sure, but this isn't a situation like corporate America where all the top exec make tens of millions and have sweet golden parachutes. Not even close.

 

[ELTEXAN]

Like I've said before when you get on this tangent...engineers...4 years of practical hourly apprentice wages before they can even write the engineering exam...all after at least 4 years of a college education.

Same with Doctors...Plumbers...Electricians...

All apprenticeships in which you are not paid like a full professional, but you do the work of a full professional under supervision.

Those people aren’t doing the principal work without oversight. Plus, we have extremely good reasons to make doctors have oversight for years… peoples lives are at stake. Oh, and those docs still get paid. Your comparison is bunk.

The only person’s life at stake when Chris simms throws a pass is a wide receiver who Simms underthrows across the middle toward a strong safety.

 

[fordman84]

Those people aren’t doing the principal work without oversight. Plus, we have extremely good reasons to make doctors have oversight for years… peoples lives are at stake. Oh, and those docs still get paid. Your comparison is bunk

without oversight? You know coaches exist, right?