Don’t blame coaltrain. He’d lose his SEC homer card if he doesn’t toe the SEC party line. He may be close to losing it anyway because he’s way too objective at times.
TOP 25... Overrated & Underrated
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I wouldn't call losing by 11 to an unbeaten Bama team "shitting the bed", BK obviously never came close to doing that. They got rocked by LSU but so did Clemson that year, they were a machine. Otherwise they played respectably against UGA and Bama. Also, ND got UGA in Fromm's first start at home while OU got them at a neutral site after he had the entire season to acclimate.
I'd say the 2016 OSU team that Franklin beat was better than any team BK has beaten in his tenure. Also Franklin has dealt with OSU, MSU, and michigan all being anywhere from very good to elite during the majority of his tenure, all in the same division, while also having games with top 10 Wisconsin or Iowa sprinkled in. What does ND have in that time frame that even compares? A slate of weak ACC teams? USC during the Helton days? The early David Shaw days before he drove the bus off a cliff at Stanford?
All of this to say the comment about BK being better "by a lot" was idiotic, and I'd take USC or PSU over LSU this year for sure. Might not come to fruition, but I feel like we've seen BK's ceiling already while Franklin and Riley still have room to grow.
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Idk that game against Bama was never close the entire time.
And yeah, Franklin has had to deal with those teams, and what's his record against those elite teams? I think it's like 1-17 or something like that against an OSU, MSU or Michigan team that has finished top 15. And I use the term elite loosely because some of them weren't they just happened to finish top 15.
I guess that's my main point. Franklin and Riley haven't really accomplished much of anything outside of a conference championship which ND can't win. Which im fine with calling that an accomplishment if you're comparing it to other teams that can win one. But Franklins been to zero CFP's and Riley has been to 3 without winning a game just like BK.
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It was an 11 point game after 3 and they traded TDs in the 4th, both team with starters in. It wasn't super close, but it wasn't an embarrassment like BK's appearances.
Franklin has definitely lost more than he's won against those elite OSU, MSU, and michigan teams, but he's been competitive much more often than not (and several of those losses came down to the wire). Talking about Franklin never being to a CFP hardly seems fair when he had every right to have gone in 2016 when he won the B1G but got left out even though he had a more impressive season than either of the times ND went to the CFP (yes, I'm aware OSU got in over them and got our asses handed to us).
I guess when it comes down to things like age and improvement shown, I don't see much from BK that would get me excited, but PSU and USC feel like they're not going away any time soon with how they've been recruiting and what we've seen on the field.
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^^ this
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I disagree about him having every right to be there in 2016. They had 2 losses. I don't think they had the resume UW did to get the 4 spot. And obviously not that of osu too. And I don't get how the psu 2016 season was more impressive than ND's CFP teams?
We'll see what BK does at LSU. If he's ever going to show himself capable of winning a title it's at LSU.
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Oh I know, I felt the same way back then. They screwed themselves by losing to Pitt early on, but he did beat an elite OSU team and win the B1G, finishing the year with two top-10 wins and damn near a third in that epic Rose Bowl. I'd call that, in its entirety, a more impressive season than BK has ever had.
Agree entirely with your last line. In all fairness, though, he shouldn't have the leash he had at ND. He has absolutely 0 excuses not to make a deep CFP run with what he's got to work with at LSU, and soon.
They played ONE frickin’ time during the Frost era? And they are in the same conference? That sucks imho.Scott Frost in 1-0 vs Franklin.
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Idk, that was also accompanied by like a 40 point loss to Michigan and the loss to Pitt(although I would call them an above avg. team). As far as performance of the teams, ND rates slightly higher in the metrics. Psu definitely has the better win, but I can't say that season was better IMO.
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Different divisions, but doesn't change the outcome.
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Beating two top 10 teams seems more impressive than going through an easy schedule and getting a reward for not having to play 13 games. At any rate, it's foolish to say BK is "a lot" better than Franklin or Riley. Considering the decade+ head start he had with relatively similar achievements, it just doesn't make sense.
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Easier to recruit at Notre Dame or OU/Penn State or USC for that matter?
You tell me?
He won at Notre Dame with their academic restrictions and that’s a legit issue, ask Lou Holtz why he bolted when ND adjusted (lowered) them before his NC then raised them again after. Having northern Indiana as a local recruiting ground
AND having the golden helmets as a huge bullseye for every single team they play particularly on the road which … I will cut SOME slack there as everyone gets up for OU and SC as well and to some degree PSU but not as much as the bigger brands of OU/SC/ND but I digress.OU/PSU/SC all have better recruiting situations than Notre Dame. He is in Louisiana now surrounded by talent (similar to SC(California) OU(Texas) (PSU) (Pennsylvania) and in the SEC.
He took his first year team which was a hodgepodge of players due to the coaching change and
1. Beat rival Alabama (which to their credit … and FU for making me point this out to you
) has been the standard for excellence in CFB for the last.. however many years, still is to a certain extent with his first year team.2. Won arguably the toughest division in CFB (SEC west) with that first year team.
Point is, imo he’s gonna be a problem in the SEC. Woody? Franklin? Meh, they MIGHT in the right situations but BK is proven at different levels , those other two.. not so much.
I don’t take delight in saying that, he’ll just be another tough coach to have to go through in the SEC.
His talent is better this year heading in, particularly in the QB room. The depth may not be there, we’ll see but the talent is there to make a run at it all imo and that’s impressive already.
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Why didn’t Franklin jump at the chance to be the HC at Notre Dame when it opened up?
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ND has never struggled for recruits and routinely have high ranking classes. His issue was never developing even decent QBs to take his teams to the next level. How easy is it to recruit to Penn State, a small college town in the middle of nowhere? That excuse is BS.Easier to recruit at Notre Dame or OU/Penn State or USC for that matter?
You tell me?
He won at Notre Dame with their academic restrictions and that’s a legit issue, ask Lou Holtz why he bolted when ND adjusted (lowered) them before his NC then raised them again after. Having northern Indiana as a local recruiting ground
OU/PSU/SC all have better recruiting situations than Notre Dame. He is in Louisiana now surrounded by talent (similar to SC(California) OU(Texas) (PSU) (Pennsylvania) and in the SEC.
He took his first year team which was a hodgepodge of players due to the coaching change and
1. Beat rival Alabama (which to their credit … and FU for making me point this out to you
2. Won arguably the toughest division in CFB (SEC west) with that first year team.
Point is, imo he’s gonna be a problem in the SEC. Woody? Franklin? Meh, they MIGHT in the right situations but BK is proven at different levels , those other two.. not so much.
I don’t take delight in saying that, he’ll just be another tough coach to have to go through in the SEC.
His talent is better this year heading in, particularly in the QB room. The depth may not be there, we’ll see but the talent is there to make a run at it all imo and that’s impressive already.
Good question. IMO Penn State is a better job than Notre Dame.
Sooo... ND needs a really BIG scandal to be a better job - huh? Interesting...
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The state of PA had almost double the amount of 4/5* prospects(37-19) between the 2020-2023 classes, so the in-state talent is much better in PA, and has been historically. Obviously, ND can recruit great, but I'd say it's probably easier to recruit to PSU. Plus you have MD/DC and VA right there to recruit to as well. You could come close to filling a roster with that alone. ND has Illinois, Michigan and Ohio(as does PSU) as surrounding states, but Illinois and Michigan don't produce what MD/DC do. ND has to recruit much more nationally to fill out a roster compared to PSU.
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Ohio State and michigan routinely do well in the MD/DC area, Ohio State especially. PSU has taken four players from MD/DC in the last five classes that were 4* or above so I wouldn't exactly call those areas Penn State-centric exactly. Virginia seems more that way, but I'd argue Ohio has been more advantageous to ND than PSU for years. Also, all elite teams recruit nationally, including Penn State.
End of the day, ND routinely has higher rated recruiting classes than Penn State (9 times since 2010) so the whole "it's so much harder to recruit at a high level at ND" is a truly BS excuse.
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It's not a lot, but 13% of their scholarship players were from MD/DC between 2020 and 2023. As a secondary pipeline that's pretty significant. PSU got commitments from 59 players bordering the state of PA, which includes VA between 2019 and 2023. That's a ton of players. ND only got commitments from 19 such players that border IN. I'd agree that Ohio has been better for ND than PSU, but that's because it has to be. PSU has PA, and the DMV right there. There's just more players closer to PSU than ND.
And yeah, ND has recruited slightly better since BK was there, but not because it has been easier. You could legit recruit PA kids only and if you landed the top 20-25 kids in the state you'd have a top 15 class most years