Bitcoin

Cave_Johnson said:
You gotta be careful directly comparing Visas transactions to BTC transactions. It's not a one to one thing. You've got something like 6-8 other middle men involved in a Visa transaction where BTC itself is the full payment system. And not that this is the majority of BTC payments, but one BTC transaction can involve sending BTC to several recipients at once. As @HammerDown pointed out you also have things like the lightning network which significantly increases transactions per second with the caveat that you do have to purchase and own BTC first to use it.

And then of course outside of all that the BTC network isn't going to cancel your transaction or arbitrarily decide to refuse to let you use the network because you live in a wrong part of the world or are selling home made buttplugs out of your garage or something.
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that's alot of words to account for a 200x difference in transaction capacity and none of it explains how a blockchain that is limited to a certain MB limit per 10 minutes can make real time financial transactions likes credit cards and banks do today on a scale far beyond that.
 
HammerDown said:
That’s what I didn't really get into: Bitcoin Layer 2's like Lightning.

So the argument from those threatened by Bitcoin (assholes like Bernanke who lie through their teeth to preserve the legacy payment rails that have made them and their cronies rich) is that Bitcoin isn't an effective payment system. Technically true. But the L2's change all that. (see videos above)

Instant, easier than any credit card transaction, permissionless, 100% secure, virtually free and completely private.

The problem is adoption and make no mistake, Bernanke, Bill Gates, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet, et al are going to put up a massive fight against Bitcoin because they know it's the end of their ride of dominance and greed.

There will be increasing lies and propaganda in the media catering to the scared and ignorant which is over 99% of people on Earth re: Bitcoin.
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more words that don't understand the MB transaction limit built into blockchain.
 
HammerDown said:
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that's looking backward.

There was a time in the 2005-2010 timeframe that I was in the top 10 in the world on World Community Grid for computing time spent on "worthy" causes.

Do I wish today that I would have used my control of IBM computing power in a different way for my own benefit? Oh fuck yeah.

Would I buy bitcoin today? oh fuck no.
 
RoyMunson said:
that's alot of words to account for a 200x difference in transaction capacity and none of it explains how a blockchain that is limited to a certain MB limit per 10 minutes can make real time financial transactions likes credit cards and banks do today on a scale far beyond that.
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RoyMunson said:
more words that don't understand the MB transaction limit built into blockchain.
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Research L1 vs. L2. Understand how blockchains work.
 
RoyMunson said:
that's looking backward.

There was a time in the 2005-2010 timeframe that I was in the top 10 in the world on World Community Grid for computing time spent on "worthy" causes.

Do I wish today that I would have used my control of IBM computing power in a different way for my own benefit? Oh fuck yeah.

Would I buy bitcoin today? oh fuck no.
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You’ll buy Bitcoin at the price you deserve it. :thumb:
 
RoyMunson said:
that's alot of words to account for a 200x difference in transaction capacity and none of it explains how a blockchain that is limited to a certain MB limit per 10 minutes can make real time financial transactions likes credit cards and banks do today on a scale far beyond that.
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If you're simply trying to say that the bitcoin network by itself is not capable of scaling in a way that would make it as viable as Visa or Mastercard then you'll have a hard time finding anybody who disagrees with you.
 
Cave_Johnson said:
If you're simply trying to say that the bitcoin network by itself is not capable of scaling in a way that would make it as viable as Visa or Mastercard then you'll have a hard time finding anybody who disagrees with you.
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Then how is purchasing goods with bitcoin going to work if I can't transfer from my wallet to the vendor because the block is full... so I have to wait 10 minutes and hope that I can get in the next block?
 
Swurv said:
If you don't understand it, of course you're not going to buy it.
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telling me I'm wrong isn't an answer to my question... not surprised you don't have one.
 
HammerDown said:
Research L1 vs. L2. Understand how blockchains work.
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at the end of the day, bits from wallet A need to be transferred to wallet B. Current limit on those transfers is?
 
RoyMunson said:
at the end of the day, bits from wallet A need to be transferred to wallet B. Current limit on those transfers is?
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That’s the beauty of an L2 like Lightning. Instant, virtually free and resolved to the blockchain later.

For all intents and purposes? Limitless. Technically? Limited by full Lightning nodes.

It’s 2022 technology vs. 1952 Diner’s Club technology.
 
RoyMunson said:
Then how is purchasing goods with bitcoin going to work if I can't transfer from my wallet to the vendor because the block is full... so I have to wait 10 minutes and hope that I can get in the next block?
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You don't have to wait with transactions on the lightning network. If you open a payment channel with the vendor on the lightning network (an L2 payment protocol as has been mentioned) you're going to see that transaction instantly. L2 transactions are off-chain transactions with their own ledger. Eventually you'll have to close that payment channel with a "transaction" on the bitcoin block chain, but that would be ONE single "transaction".
 
Cave_Johnson said:
You don't have to wait with transactions on the lightning network. If you open a payment channel with the vendor on the lightning network (an L2 payment protocol as has been mentioned) you're going to see that transaction instantly. L2 transactions are off-chain transactions with their own ledger. Eventually you'll have to close that payment channel with a "transaction" on the bitcoin block chain, but that would be ONE single "transaction".
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And those networks still have to worry about making L1 transactions in enough time to not get fucked by the volatility in the currency.
 
HammerDown said:
That’s the beauty of an L2 like Lightning. Instant, virtually free and resolved to the blockchain later.

For all intents and purposes? Limitless. Technically? Limited by full Lightning nodes.

It’s 2022 technology vs. 1952 Diner’s Club technology.
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involving a 3rd party has never caused problems with bitcoin before...
 
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