Need to go to the SEC or B1G

[navamind]

I can't take you seriously if you are calling him JT Shroud

 

[TaikoTiger]

Sometimes players just improve though. Otherwise, how do you explain someone like Joe Burrow.

Everyone said the same thing about Jalen Hurts too. "Oh look at the numbers he is putting up on the crap B12 defenses". Now look at the guy

This

Or Hendon Hooker VT -> Tenn. Or Jayden Daniels ASU -> LSU
Sometimes players just find themselves in better situations after transferring

 

[Volbound1700]

1995 Tommie Frazier would have won it over Eddie George.

The one that really stands out to me (USC fans cover your ears) is 2005.

I think if it had been done after the title game, Vince Young would have gotten it over Reggie Bush.

Talk about smaller teams with great players, I thought Antwaan Randel El form Indiana deserved a lot more love in 2001. At the time, he broke several NCAA records playing for Indiana but got no love because he played for Indiana.

 

[Volbound1700]

This

Or Hendon Hooker VT -> Tenn. Or Jayden Daniels ASU -> LSU
Sometimes players just find themselves in better situations after transferring

It is called coaching and system .

Joe Burrow would be another great example as well.

Sometimes you struggle at one job and transfer to a new job and hit lightning in a bottle.

 

[Volbound1700]

From a Tennessee perspective, the biggest screw job to us in Heisman race was actually NOT Peyton Manning. There are some arguments for why Peyton should NOT have made it related to his performance against both Florida and Vandy in 1997.

Johnny Majors, however, was just flat out screwed out of the Heisman. Johnny Majors lost it to Paul Hornung who played for a 2-8 Notre Dame team in 1956. That was basically northern media because Majors was on a very good Tennessee team (10-1), was all-SEC, and set several records for the time.

I will say this about Charles Woodson, it was interesting to see a defensive player but to be fair to Tennessee, if they were going to start rewarding defensive efforts, Al Wilson should have been on the Heisman board (not win it) in 1998 because he was one of the best defensive players to play and was the leader of the 1998 National Title team for Tennessee.

 

[iowajerms]

I am fine with Oregon joining. I just don't think the B1G wanting them. I don't see their market big enough and they are not a blue blood historically.

 

[78Cyclones]

From a Tennessee perspective, the biggest screw job to us in Heisman race was actually NOT Peyton Manning. There are some arguments for why Peyton should NOT have made it related to his performance against both Florida and Vandy in 1997.

Johnny Majors, however, was just flat out screwed out of the Heisman. Johnny Majors lost it to Paul Hornung who played for a 2-8 Notre Dame team in 1956. That was basically northern media because Majors was on a very good Tennessee team (10-1), was all-SEC, and set several records for the time.

I will say this about Charles Woodson, it was interesting to see a defensive player but to be fair to Tennessee, if they were going to start rewarding defensive efforts, Al Wilson should have been on the Heisman board (not win it) in 1998 because he was one of the best defensive players to play and was the leader of the 1998 National Title team for Tennessee.

I saw a show about Johnny Majors (we love him @ Iowa State), and he talked about a conversation he had with Hornung about that. Johnny said: "Hey Paul, you know who really deserved the Heisman in 1956?" Hornung laughingly said: "Who?" Johnny quipped: "Jim Brown!"

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

And then got benched, transferred to Oklahoma and put up crazy numbers. Then all the comments started about sec and B12 defenses.

Like I said, sometimes it absolutely is true the player is thriving bc of competition, sometimes the new team is just a better fit for him, and sometimes the player just flat out got better

Jalen Hurts wasn't "benched" in the normal sense. He was replaced by another stud 5 star QB. It is essentially like this year at Michigan. Cade McNamara wasn't benched based on performance, he was replaced by someone who can do more.

And the talks about the defenses in the Pac and Big 12 have been going on long before Jalen Hurts. The SEC and B1G are putting in double the amount of players into the NFL each year over conferences like the Pac 12 and Big 12. If you go by just defensive players put into the NFL between the conferences -- the gap is even larger for the SEC and B1G compared to the other conferences. So in the Big 12 and Pac -- they have big time weaknesses to attack on those defenses.

I agree though -- sometimes it is just a better fit, sometimes they improved, etc. but there is a reason why those conferences have been left out of the CFP, reasons why they haven't won a title in the CFP era and all of that. There is a reason why those conferences don't have the same amount of guys drafted.

 

[Fredmccallyrtr]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

- There isn't a business model that show much more expansion. I wrote an article on this and posted it here. There just aren't enough teams who can add enough to the pie to afford a full share. Sankey has been crystal clear - they aren't growing to jus grow.

- The only teams that remotely move the needle - other than ND of course - are in the ACC. Their GOR pushes any expansion out 10 years, so nothing will happen until then, if it happens at all.

- I do agree that with the SEC and the B1G dwarfing the other conference in media money, we will have an imbalance. But that imbalance is there for a reason, and you don't make it go away by absorbing schools who can't drive enough additional revenue to justify their cut of the revenue.

- It's a catchy line for the media to talk about everything going to two conferences, yet no one can explain how it makes sense. Gathering 32 schools in two conferences, only to then divide them back into two divisions of 16 teams each makes no sense ... just leave them as they are.

So, no, IMO this isn't what is happening at all. What has happened is that the SEC and the B1G have grabbed all the elite schools they can that can drive revenue. They aren't growing just to grow.

That's a very impressive post.

It makes sense based on the size of media contracts that can then be garnered.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

- There isn't a business model that show much more expansion. I wrote an article on this and posted it here. There just aren't enough teams who can add enough to the pie to afford a full share. Sankey has been crystal clear - they aren't growing to jus grow.

- The only teams that remotely move the needle - other than ND of course - are in the ACC. Their GOR pushes any expansion out 10 years, so nothing will happen until then, if it happens at all.

- I do agree that with the SEC and the B1G dwarfing the other conference in media money, we will have an imbalance. But that imbalance is there for a reason, and you don't make it go away by absorbing schools who can't drive enough additional revenue to justify their cut of the revenue.

- It's a catchy line for the media to talk about everything going to two conferences, yet no one can explain how it makes sense. Gathering 32 schools in two conferences, only to then divide them back into two divisions of 16 teams each makes no sense ... just leave them as they are.

So, no, IMO this isn't what is happening at all. What has happened is that the SEC and the B1G have grabbed all the elite schools they can that can drive revenue. They aren't growing just to grow.

Good post.


The GOR isn't as solid as it might seem, schools have the option to sue or buy their way out. ESPN, banking on the SEC, could also dissolve it. It's something like $120 million for a school to buy their way out, or just a little more than any SEC school will be getting in yearly payouts by 2028 or so, 8 years before the ACC's GOR expires.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

That's a very impressive post.

It makes sense based on the size of media contracts that can then be garnered.

Good post.


The GOR isn't as solid as it might seem, schools have the option to sue or buy their way out. ESPN, banking on the SEC, could also dissolve it. It's something like $120 million for a school to buy their way out, or just a little more than any SEC school will be getting in yearly payouts by 2028 or so, 8 years before the ACC's GOR expires.

Interesting thoughts on the GOR. The reason I am going with the GOR is good is that we know that UT and OU have had top lawyers review their GOR and they aren't getting out of it. It will be interesting to see, and even more interesting to see which, if any schools, the SEC would want to go after, and then even more interesting if and when the SEC and B1G go after the same teams (UNC comes to mind).

It's kind of crazy to think that what might have stopped the super conferences is the SEC and B1G getting such outrageous money that it doesn't make financial sense.

 

[Deep Creek]

I agree though -- sometimes it is just a better fit, sometimes they improved, etc. but there is a reason why those conferences have been left out of the CFP, reasons why they haven't won a title in the CFP era and all of that. There is a reason why those conferences don't have the same amount of guys drafted.

Since the CFP began the score is 5-2-1-0-0. B1G doesn't have but one more natty during the CFP era than the PAC 12 and Big 12. That's like being a taller midget. And the ACC has one more than the B1G. So it really is "the SEC and ROY....rest of y'all".

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Since the CFP began the score is 5-2-1-0-0. B1G doesn't have but one more natty during the CFP era than the PAC 12 and Big 12. That's like being a taller midget. And the ACC has one more than the B1G. So it really is "the SEC and ROY....rest of y'all".

The ACC is one team. Clemson. No other ACC team has made it. The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP.

Look at how many times each conference has been left out of the CFP. It isn't as if it is a big secret the best teams are coming out of the South. Just take a look at the number of players drafted from the conference -- it will tell you who the best conferences are.

As I stated earlier. Georgia had 15 players drafted last year alone. The Big 12 and Pac had 25 each for all their teams combined.

 

[Deep Creek]

I agree though -- sometimes it is just a better fit, sometimes they improved, etc. but there is a reason why those conferences have been left out of the CFP, reasons why they haven't won a title in the CFP era and all of that. There is a reason why those conferences don't have the same amount of guys drafted.

The ACC is one team. Clemson. No other ACC team has made it. The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP.

Look at how many times each conference has been left out of the CFP. It isn't as if it is a big secret the best teams are coming out of the South. Just take a look at the number of players drafted from the conference -- it will tell you who the best conferences are.

As I stated earlier. Georgia had 15 players drafted last year alone. The Big 12 and Pac had 25 each for all their teams combined.

Change the narrative, huh? I've quoted both of your posts. You said "won a title in the CFP era" and when I call you on it you change the narrative to "The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP." Which is it?

Feel free to quote where I questioned your statements regarding the draft. I didn't so that part of your response is pure bullshit.

Cold hard reality is the B1G isn't anywhere near the level of the SEC as far as "on field" results and you can't accept that. The B1G is closer to the other three in football quality than they are to the SEC. The only place the B1G is even close to the SEC is in the amount of money each school receives from the conference media deals. That's it. Accept it.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Change the narrative, huh? I've quoted both of your posts. You said "won a title in the CFP era" and when I call you on it you change the narrative to "The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP." Which is it?

Feel free to quote where I questioned your statements regarding the draft. I didn't so that part of your response is pure bullshit.

Cold hard reality is the B1G isn't anywhere near the level of the SEC as far as "on field" results and you can't accept that. The B1G is closer to the other three in football quality than they are to the SEC. The only place the B1G is even close to the SEC is in the amount of money each school receives from the conference media deals. That's it. Accept it.

You won't hear me argue the B1G is anywhere near the SEC for top tier schools. It isn't even remotely close. I'm a die hard Michigan fan and you won't ever hear me say Michigan is even in the same ballpark as the elite of the SEC.

I look at it like this. Using the NFL as a reference example. Teams like Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson (recently), etc. -- They are essentially teams splitting up the overwhelming majority of 1st and 2nd round picks each year. The 2nd tier teams, which includes pretty much everyone else in the top 25 (Michigan is in this group) -- We will get the occasional 1st/2nd round pick, but mostly we are building our teams around 3rd/4th/5th round type picks and rounding out the roster with 6th/7th rounders with hope to hit the lottery on a few.

This is rinse and repeat every year. It is why you don't really see much parity in CFB. It is why they put out a list of 10 or so teams each year for the past 10-15 years of teams who meet the blue chip threshold of over 50% and the team who wins the CFP comes from that group every year, without fail. The majority of the teams who hit this threshold are in the SEC and B1G.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Change the narrative, huh? I've quoted both of your posts. You said "won a title in the CFP era" and when I call you on it you change the narrative to "The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP." Which is it?

It is a mixture of both. If you haven't won a CFP and have had quite a few years where you didn't even have a team invited to the dance -- then it is pretty telling about the quality of the conference.

 

[78Cyclones]

The ACC is one team. Clemson. No other ACC team has made it. The B1G has had Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the CFP.

FWIW, Florida State was in the 2014 CFP.
So, the ACC has had two different schools make it.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

FWIW, Florida State was in the 2014 CFP.
So, the ACC has had two different schools make it.

I didn't realize that -- I stand corrected. Were they the team Oregon blew out? I don't really remember alot from that year other than OSU had to use their 3rd string QB and won the title.

 

[78Cyclones]

I didn't realize that -- I stand corrected. Were they the team Oregon blew out? I don't really remember alot from that year other than OSU had to use their 3rd string QB and won the title.

Yep! Oregon punked them in the Rose Bowl.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Yep! Oregon punked them in the Rose Bowl.

I don't even remember that game. I remember it was a blowout.

 

[78Cyclones]

I don't even remember that game. I remember it was a blowout.

Well, I'm sure you were super hyped for the Sugar Bowl semi to follow!