More Michigan Cheating

This is the king who apparently took down the Ohio State dynasty, imagine Ryan Day...getting beat by this dude

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Mike McDaniel looks like he should be shoved in a locker yet he's doing just fine lol
 
The core thing here is being presented as sign stealing = illegal and bad. But that's not actually true. Sign steeling is legal, common and not bad. It's why teams go through great lengths to try and code them.

The idea that using HD video to scout and sign steal is somehow more ethical (and importantly, less of an advantage) than using a dude sitting in the stands is a super weird, and outdated, to me.
 
The core thing here is being presented as sign stealing = illegal and bad. But that's not actually true. Sign steeling is legal, common and not bad. It's why teams go through great lengths to try and code them.

The idea that using HD video to scout and sign steal is somehow more ethical (and importantly, less of an advantage) than using a dude sitting in the stands is a super weird, and outdated, to me.
It's not. There are also prohibitions on in-person scouting using video or audio methods for recording signals. This is a pretty big difference.
 
It's not. There are also prohibitions on in-person scouting using video or audio methods for recording signals. This is a pretty big difference.
I'm not talking about sitting in the stands and recording the video. Teams are given full game video, multiple camera angles and full field shots (which include signals) to scout future teams. So yes, in 1994 having someone sitting in the stands recording video would be an advantage. In 2023 I just don't see the argument.
 
I'm not talking about sitting in the stands and recording the video. Teams are given full game video, multiple camera angles and full field shots (which include signals) to scout future teams. So yes, in 1994 having someone sitting in the stands recording video would be an advantage. In 2023 I just don't see the argument.
Well of course you don't, it's michigan that's guilty of it. Funny how they're saying it goes back to 2021, precisely the time michigan took that next step and finally beat OSU...hmm...
 
Well of course you don't, it's michigan that's guilty of it. Funny how they're saying it goes back to 2021, precisely the time michigan took that next step and finally beat OSU...hmm...
So you think OSU was defeated because MIchigan had someone sitting in the stands of your 100,000+ stadium? That's the argument here? Step back. You realise how silly that sounds, right?

If I recorded every sign Michigan used during the game from my seats and handed those videos to Ohio State staff, I would not expect that to change the outcome of the games at all. Because those signs are recorded by probably 7 broadcast cameras televising and recording the game.
 
I ain't a skunk weasel defender by any means. Just seems to me like the NCAA has a hell of a lot more issues to spend time on than something like this.
"They are stomping at the piss ants while the elephants are walking all over them."
 
So you think OSU was defeated because MIchigan had someone sitting in the stands of your 100,000+ stadium? That's the argument here? Step back. You realise how silly that sounds, right?

If I recorded every sign Michigan used during the game from my seats and handed those videos to Ohio State staff, I would not expect that to change the outcome of the games at all. Because those signs are recorded by probably 7 broadcast cameras televising and recording the game.
Yet for whatever reason, only michigan is being investigated for breaking rules around it. And again, the cheating is traced back to the very year that michigan somehow became a national power, and right after their awful 2020 year when they were horrifically bad...sure is quite the coincidence...
 
This is how game broadcasts look. This how almost every camera shot that wasn't a goal line stand looks like in the Michigan v Rutgers game a few weeks ago
michigan rutgers.jpg
 
I'm not defending anything, as I really couldn't care less and I hope it is true, as it means UM is slowly getting out of their archaic ways.

That being said -- unless Michigan is applying for sideline press passes, where you are granted access to bring video equipment -- how are they shooting video of the sidelines? Cell phone?
If it is true, then this is going to set Michigan back. That's how the pendulum works. You swing one way until you reach the limit (NCAA slaps your hand) then you have to swing back equally as far the other way to get back in good graces.
 
Yet for whatever reason, only michigan is being investigated for breaking rules around it. And again, the cheating is traced back to the very year that michigan somehow became a national power, and right after their awful 2020 year when they were horrifically bad...sure is quite the coincidence...
I think that's for a few reasons. but mostly, I think another coach had made the accusation and forced the NCAA to look into it. But I think the NCAA lacks any significant proof of it. I also do think Harbaugh pissed someone off at the NCAA. But I also think the NCAA is an organization who's lost all teeth so, as of late, they've been going hard on nonsense because they can't actually enforce more significant things anymore.

And Michigan had a bad year in 2020, like many teams, because like 10 starters opted out. The roster was a mess. But Michigan had a pretty clearly established good team prior to 2020 under Harbaugh. The only difference was the Ohio State win.
 
This is how game broadcasts look. This how almost every camera shot that wasn't a goal line stand looks like in the Michigan v Rutgers game a few weeks ago
View attachment 109776
And how many plays are being called at this point, when the camera is showing the entire field? None, because they are about to run said play.

Bottom line...rules are rules and if you break the rules you get in trouble. If you don't like the rules, then cry about it but don't sit here and try to convince everyone that Michigan didn't break the rules if there is an open investigation saying they did.
 
And how many plays are being called at this point, when the camera is showing the entire field? None, because they are about to run said play.

Bottom line...rules are rules and if you break the rules you get in trouble. If you don't like the rules, then cry about it but don't sit here and try to convince everyone that Michigan didn't break the rules if there is an open investigation saying they did.
We actually don't know what the punishment for this nonsense would even look like. We don't even know if this is a level 2 or level 1 violation. I bet Michigan could get away with firing the staffer and be on our merry way.
 
We actually don't know what the punishment for this nonsense would even look like. We don't even know if this is a level 2 or level 1 violation. I bet Michigan could get away with firing the staffer and be on our merry way.
Ok. At least you are coming around to admitting if they did this then it is against the rules.
 
Ok. At least you are coming around to admitting if they did this then it is against the rules.
Oh I am not. I'm admitting that I don't care either way. I hope we did everything possible to beat Ohio State. I hope we stole the shit out of their signs. I don't care if we stole signs through legal methods or by illegally visiting their games.

What's being accused is that there's evidence Michigan stole signs, which is legal. What there doesn't seem to be evidence of is that Michigan had people on campuses for the purpose of illegal scouting and sign stealing.

But no matter how this turns out, I do not care. Because the core of the allegation is about sign stealing. Which is legal. As discussed yesterday, the semantics and dumb rules about how the sign stealing information is gathered doesn't matter to me.

The fact that this broke on OSU forums, the claim was "vast network of spies" and now is "low level staffer with military grade gear" is hilarious to me. Tells me everything I need to know about how much Harbaugh has ruined that program. We know where this attack is coming from.
 
Oh I am not. I'm admitting that I don't care either way. I hope we did everything possible to beat Ohio State. I hope we stole the shit out of their signs. I don't care if we stole signs through legal methods or by illegally visiting their games.

What's being accused is that there's evidence Michigan stole signs, which is legal. What there doesn't seem to be evidence of is that Michigan had people on campuses for the purpose of illegal scouting and sign stealing.

But no matter how this turns out, I do not care. Because the core of the allegation is about sign stealing. Which is legal. As discussed yesterday, the semantics and dumb rules about how the sign stealing information is gathered doesn't matter to me.

The fact that this broke on OSU forums, the claim was "vast network of spies" and now is "low level staffer with military grade gear" is hilarious to me. Tells me everything I need to know about how much Harbaugh has ruined that program. We know where this attack is coming from.
You not caring is not the same as you saying breaking the rules isn't breaking the rules.
 
You not caring is not the same as you saying breaking the rules isn't breaking the rules.
Oh no. I hope we walked every single line and broke every low level nonsense rule like this to beat Ohio State. Because every single person on this site knows that's what every single major program does at every single level of this game. Some teams hand out bags of cash, other teams have Conner sit in Kinnick and painfully watch the Iowa offense. I'm also saying in the same breath, that this rule seems particularly dumb.
 
Oh I am not. I'm admitting that I don't care either way. I hope we did everything possible to beat Ohio State. I hope we stole the shit out of their signs. I don't care if we stole signs through legal methods or by illegally visiting their games.

What's being accused is that there's evidence Michigan stole signs, which is legal. What there doesn't seem to be evidence of is that Michigan had people on campuses for the purpose of illegal scouting and sign stealing.

But no matter how this turns out, I do not care. Because the core of the allegation is about sign stealing. Which is legal. As discussed yesterday, the semantics and dumb rules about how the sign stealing information is gathered doesn't matter to me.

The fact that this broke on OSU forums, the claim was "vast network of spies" and now is "low level staffer with military grade gear" is hilarious to me. Tells me everything I need to know about how much Harbaugh has ruined that program. We know where this attack is coming from.
LOL at thinking the NCAA is perusing OSU forums for NCAA infractions against other schools. Also LOL at Harbaugh ruining any program. We're still closer to winning a NC than michigan, and last year proved that.
 
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