More Michigan Cheating

Voltaire said:
That Michigan cheated. Starting in 2020.
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I dont know when it started.

I’m just trying to educate (apparently more than one Michigan fan) on how this isn’t normal what Stallions did.
 
"When someone uncovers a scandal in their company, I don't think they can say 'I didn't know what was going on.' They're just saying they're too dumb to do their job! And if they are really too dumb, then why are they getting paid millions of dollars to do it? They know what's going on."

- former michigan coach Bo Schembechler
 
Voltaire said:
What NCAA College Football team could not afford this minor cost, but can now afford NIL?

Seems like a lot of time to neutralize this as a factor. If I were an opposing coach, I think I could have turned this into an advantage. Note: I am not even closely qualified to be a college football coach.
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Apples and Oranges.

iirc.. NIL was a SCOTUS ruling. NCAA had no choice in the matter.

Apparently Michigan's future opponents had no idea they were being scouted (in-person) until it was outed by the NCAA last fall. The NCAA sent the Big 10 a letter basically saying...... "Yo, you might want to inform your teams that someone is violating the in-person scouting rules. They're sending a rep to your games with the sole purpose of recording your sideline".

Of course said teams knew they were being scouted via tv broadcasts (which are limited). The tv broadcast isn't showing the sidelines every play.
Michigan was in-person scouting for the sole purpose of capturing (recording) every signal being sent in.
 
ralphiewvu said:
They. Aren't. Taping. From. The. Sideline. Maize.

Which is by far the better view when taping signs.

Understand the difference yet Maize?
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Just to point out -- Taping from the sideline would be terrible. Players are running back and forth in front of you. At some point, the players on the field are blocking your view.

Anywhere in the stands on the 50 yard line would be a much better view. Not condoning anything, but just stating what should be the obvious.
 
Across The Field said:
"When someone uncovers a scandal in their company, I don't think they can say 'I didn't know what was going on.' They're just saying they're too dumb to do their job! And if they are really too dumb, then why are they getting paid millions of dollars to do it? They know what's going on."

- former michigan coach Bo Schembechler
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"We are tough"

-current Ohio Soft head coach Ryan Day
 
Red_Alert said:
Apples and Oranges.

iirc.. NIL was a SCOTUS ruling. NCAA had no choice in the matter.

Apparently Michigan's future opponents had no idea they were being scouted (in-person) until it was outed by the NCAA last fall. The NCAA sent the Big 10 a letter basically saying...... "Yo, you might want to inform your teams that someone is violating the in-person scouting rules. They're sending a rep to your games with the sole purpose of recording your sideline".

Of course said teams knew they were being scouted via tv broadcasts (which are limited). The tv broadcast isn't showing the sidelines every play.
Michigan was in-person scouting for the sole purpose of capturing (recording) every signal being sent in.
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Nice retort … I still believe that if you are too poor to send some to in-person scouting, you should not have an NCAA football team. Doesn’t excuse Michigan, but the investigation is too big and the punishment is too harsh. Also, it’s 21st Century … why was there no in-helmet communication?
 
I think Michigan fans must think everyone is still walking around with Nokia Bricks when they use the "lol they are really worried about people videoing with Iphones" defense.

Apple filmed some fucking super bowl shit with the Iphone, we aren't living 20+ years ago when cell phone video was potato quality.
 
Voltaire said:
Nice retort … I still believe that if you are too poor to send some to in-person scouting, you should not have an NCAA football team. Doesn’t excuse Michigan, but the investigation is too big and the punishment is too harsh. Also, it’s 21st Century … why was there no in-helmet communication?
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I'm not going to get into every program being able to afford plane tickets, hotel accommodations, meals, taxi, game tickets, and hourly wages, to every one of their future opponents.

To the bold, it's the same reasoning. Not all programs could afford to purchase in-helmet communication.

That the in-helmet bylaw was changed for 2024 is a direct 'cause and effect' of Michigan getting caught violating the original in-person scouting rule.
The cost for that type of communication has surely come down since the bylaw was written. It's also limited to up to :15 remaining on the play clock before it's automatically shut off.
 
ralphiewvu said:
Maize, you just literally answered the big difference with your next sentence(s). IE your distinction without difference comment was blatantly wrong.

I’m just happy you can admit the Difference now. A few posts we were told there was no difference.
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You don't understand English then, because my "distinction without a difference" was referencing information gathered by schools and handed to future opponents of that schools' current opponent; and not about the distinction between recording from the sidelines vs. the booth; which you're now trying to claim is a "gotcha".

The distinction without a difference comment was directly related to the end result. The end result of in person scouting using prior school's scouting information (which is literally in person scouting) is functionally no different, if not better, than Stallions in person scouting on the sideline with spy glasses. It's a major loophole in the same rule we're discussion.

In the end, the school receiving that information gets all the information they need to steal signs. This is, as openly admitted by the coach in the post from yesterday, commonplace in the game. So common that teams regularly switch their signs out.

So, no. You haven't been able to follow the conversation, which is why you came to the false conclusion you did.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
I think Michigan fans must think everyone is still walking around with Nokia Bricks when they use the "lol they are really worried about people videoing with Iphones" defense.

Apple filmed some fucking super bowl shit with the Iphone, we aren't living 20+ years ago when cell phone video was potato quality.
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Apparently you think this, if you believe Michigan gained an advantage by recording signs that were publically captured in HD video for 11 games prior and witnessed by 1 million fans with HD recorders in their pockets.
 
Red_Alert said:
I'm not going to get into every program being able to afford plane tickets, hotel accommodations, meals, taxi, game tickets, and hourly wages, to every one of their future opponents.

To the bold, it's the same reasoning. Not all programs could afford to purchase in-helmet communication.

That the in-helmet bylaw was changed for 2024 is a direct 'cause and effect' of Michigan getting caught violating the original in-person scouting rule.
The cost for that type of communication has surely come down since the bylaw was written. It's also limited to up to :15 remaining on the play clock before it's automatically shut off.
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Which is why it's much easier to just get prior opponents to hand that information over to you.....
 
Across The Field said:
He's and idiot but he's also a troll. This is the guy who tried sticking up for Harbaugh naming a dude captain who had previously sexually assaulted an innocent woman because she didn't give him what he wanted. It truly doesn't matter what michigan does, he will try (and fail) to manipulate information or play semantics in order to try and paint them in the best light. This has been going on for years.

Funniest part is, I guarantee he was one of the countless michigan fans up in arms about OSU players trading their belongings for tattoos.
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First off, rude.

Secondly, because the tattoo was what they caught them on and not necessarily the end all of that story. That included, but was not limited to, stories like these for years. (tried posting the ESPN link but it messed up given it's from 2005)
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A lack of evidence apparently deflated former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett's allegations that coaches and boosters arranged for him to get passing grades, cars and thousands of dollars.
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Sure. All normal now. But at the time, it was hard to lose out on recruits to Ohio State when photos like this were appearing online:
1724689433865.png
Ohio State fans like to spin that like they didn't know what was going on behind closed doors. The Tattoos were just the thing they were most sloppy with.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
lol, 225 pages and Red still doesn't get it. Classic though
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LOL

Translation: "i KnOw yOu ArE, bUt WhAt aM i"

The NCAA's Notice of Allegations to Michigan proves there's not "a distinction without a difference" here. The violation was to the letter of the bylaw.

You've spent 9 months here saying Michigan had done no wrong with proof being that the NCAA had not issued them a Notice of Allegations.
We all told you that investigations take time and that a Notice of Allegations would likely be forthcoming.
Of course everybody was right (except you), and now you have to revert back to October 2023 in that there's no difference between reviewing tv coverage and in-person scouting.
 
Red_Alert said:
LOL

Translation: "i KnOw yOu ArE, bUt WhAt aM i"

The NCAA's Notice of Allegations to Michigan proves there's not "a distinction without a difference" here. The violation was to the letter of the bylaw.

You've spent 9 months here saying Michigan had done no wrong with proof being that the NCAA had not issued them a Notice of Allegations.
We all told you that investigations take time and that a Notice of Allegations would likely be forthcoming.
Of course everybody was right (except you), and now you have to revert back to October 2023 in that there's no difference between reviewing tv coverage and in-person scouting.
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Then you can't read.

Like I said -- you're in the , "BuT ThEY BroKE thE RulES!" crowd without any consideration to what that means. Michigan gathered information against the NCAA rules, at least if they have definitive proof that Stallions was on the sidelines of the CMU game.

Functionally speaking, Michigan was no better off than any other team who openly trades and gathers this information in other ways (including directly trading information with former opponents; which is practically identical, but not banned, to in person scouting using your own coaches).

Michigan hadn't broken any rules without a notice of allegation. People are and were quick to jump to the conclusion. The notice likely indicates some rules were broken. The severity of those rules is TBT. Most people are assuming these are major violations, and I'm going to continue to stand on the fact that i believe (and indications are plenty) that these are in fact minor rule violations; akin to the number of minor rule violations that teams commonly commit every single season. ANd I think that's where many people are going to end up butt hurt -- they've spent 8 months making a mountain out of a molehill.

Because as I stated, this is a difference without a distinction. Michigan got the information they would have gotten anyway, one dude just happened ot make his job getting it easier.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Then you can't read.

Like I said -- you're in the , "BuT ThEY BroKE thE RulES!" crowd without any consideration to what that means. Michigan gathered information against the NCAA rules, at least if they have definitive proof that Stallions was on the sidelines of the CMU game.

Functionally speaking, Michigan was no better off than any other team who openly trades and gathers this information in other ways (including directly trading information with former opponents; which is practically identical, but not banned, to in person scouting using your own coaches).

The notice likely indicates some rules were broken. The severity of those rules is TBT. Most people are assuming these are major violations, and I'm going to continue to stand on the fact that i believe (and indications are plenty) that these are in fact minor rule violations; akin to the number of minor rule violations that teams commonly commit every single season.
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226 pages and maze&blew still doesn't get it.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
Just to point out -- Taping from the sideline would be terrible. Players are running back and forth in front of you. At some point, the players on the field are blocking your view.

Anywhere in the stands on the 50 yard line would be a much better view. Not condoning anything, but just stating what should be the obvious.
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Not if you move around. It's pretty easy to find the sign givers without much hindrance. Which is a much better view than the press box. Thats pretty obvious.
 
"tEh NCAA aNd BiG 10 ArE sO FuCkEd. MiChiGaN's AttOrNeYs aRe GoNNA sUe TeH fUcK OuTTa tHeM" - maze&blew Oct 2023

"Here's your Notice of Allegations" - NCAA Aug 2024

:dhd:
 
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