A day may come when the courage of men fails, but it is not this day

NewPhoneWhoDis said:
There is an ENORMOUS difference between an employee doing this on his own and the coach telling him to do this. He is going to face some sort of penalty, but it will depend on which one it is. If he knew -- he should be fired on the spot.

As far as no matter what happens in 'the game' -- that is funny to hear. Shouldn't OSU absolutely torch UM? You should blow us out. Only reason UM won was the signs is what you said? Stalions is long gone. Michigan shouldn't stand a chance.
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If the HC is responsible for all that happens under his watch, there is no much difference.

Why? UM has still practiced, still played the games. I never said the "only reason" UM won was the signs. Just gonna make things up? They did help, and if they didnt why do it? Stallions was around for more than half the season so to say he is "long gone" is a great overstatement. Lots of fun stuff here. Lots MI fans making excuses for cheating. My favorite cheaters.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
I never didn’t accept that? The ncaa can. The ncaa isn’t bound to. Nor has the ncaa suggested this is a violation and to what level. The ncaa would absolutely punish a program more if the coach participated or even if there was evidence the coach should have known.
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It doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't have know. If it happens on THEIR STAFF, they are responsible. Period.

There is no plausible deniability anymore in the NCAA. So Michigan is getting some form of penalty -- what that will be won't be known for some time.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
No one is arguing the ncaa doesn’t have authority to punish the coach. But the ncaa has discretion and I think it’s safe to say the ncaa would almost certainly punish a program/coach more if they knew and/or participated.
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Oh, I agree that if Harbaugh was in on this they will get the hammer dropped and he will get an indefinite suspension with a show-cause for several years.

The point is, it doesn't matter if he knew. He's responsible.
 
ellupo said:
If the HC is responsible for all that happens under his watch, there is no much difference.

Why? UM has still practiced, still played the games. I never said the "only reason" UM won was the signs. Just gonna make things up? They did help, and if they didnt why do it? Stallions was around for more than half the season so to say he is "long gone" is a great overstatement. Lots of fun stuff here. Lots MI fans making excuses for cheating. My favorite cheaters.
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If Harbaugh ordered it, knew about it and let it happen. He should be fired immediately. If he didn't know, very little will come of this from the NCAA.

You are the one who keeps saying we haven't beat OSU because of the signs. Did you not say that? My question is -- what happened last year when you had our signs, changed your signs and still lost?

And Stalions hasn't been on the sideline of the last 4 games. We've won 166-38 in this games. So our average victory is 41-9. Our season averages are 39 ppg while giving up 8 ppg.

So with and without Stalions, nothing has changed. :shrug:
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
It doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't have know. If it happens on THEIR STAFF, they are responsible. Period.

There is no plausible deniability anymore in the NCAA. So Michigan is getting some form of penalty -- what that will be won't be known for some time.
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That doesn’t mean the ncaa will likely rule that way. They can. I don’t think the evidence supports doing.
 
ellupo said:
If the HC is responsible for all that happens under his watch, there is no much difference.

Why? UM has still practiced, still played the games. I never said the "only reason" UM won was the signs. Just gonna make things up? They did help, and if they didnt why do it? Stallions was around for more than half the season so to say he is "long gone" is a great overstatement. Lots of fun stuff here. Lots MI fans making excuses for cheating. My favorite cheaters.
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I don’t think it played a factor in winning. And the Vegas odds after he was suspended then fired illustrate this. The people actually in charge of measuring impact on games saw 0 impact.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
I don’t think it played a factor in winning. And the Vegas odds after he was suspended then fired illustrate this. The people actually in charge of measuring impact on games saw 0 impact.
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Michigan beat Las Vegas odds makers by 9 points starting in 2021 through the last game where Stalions was on the sidelines.

No advantage my arse.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
That doesn’t mean the ncaa will likely rule that way. They can. I don’t think the evidence supports doing.
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We don't have any idea what evidence they have or don't have. We only know what has been speculated online.

Also -- it doesn't matter if Harbaugh didn't have the slightest clue it was going on -- he is still a member of his staff and he is responsible for him. They took away plausible deniability in January of 2023. We are getting some form of punishment.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
We don't have any idea what evidence they have or don't have. We only know what has been speculated online.

Also -- it doesn't matter if Harbaugh didn't have the slightest clue it was going on -- he is still a member of his staff and he is responsible for him. They took away plausible deniability in January of 2023. We are getting some form of punishment.
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The big ten admitted they have nothing that ties Harbaugh to it. So unless something new pops out that is confirmed. But again we have to see. This may not even be a violation and we have little precedent here. Even if it is, it’s very easy to make the case of a low level staffer acting alone.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
The big ten admitted they have nothing that ties Harbaugh to it. So unless something new pops out that is confirmed. But again we have to see. This may not even be a violation and we have little precedent here. Even if it is, it’s very easy to make the case of a low level staffer acting alone.
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Do you not understand that even if Harbaugh didn't know, he's still responsible in some capacity? This is pretty well documented in other cases and precedent has been set before.
 
ericd7633 said:
Do you not understand that even if Harbaugh didn't know, he's still responsible in some capacity? This is pretty well documented in other cases and precedent has been set before.
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Of course. He hired him after all.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
If Harbaugh ordered it, knew about it and let it happen. He should be fired immediately. If he didn't know, very little will come of this from the NCAA.

You are the one who keeps saying we haven't beat OSU because of the signs. Did you not say that? My question is -- what happened last year when you had our signs, changed your signs and still lost?

And Stalions hasn't been on the sideline of the last 4 games. We've won 166-38 in this games. So our average victory is 41-9. Our season averages are 39 ppg while giving up 8 ppg.

So with and without Stalions, nothing has changed. :shrug:
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Harbs is responsible for what happens in his program. He created the climate. He is responsible.
I said it's been over a decade since MI won without cheating. I guess you are reading the MI propaganda, Day said he could not change all the signs not enough time. He didn't have the full videos from many other games to analyze like Harbs did.
Its cute you think that somehow deep throat being gone instantly removes the cheatin advantage MI got. Very cute and naive.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
I don’t think it played a factor in winning. And the Vegas odds after he was suspended then fired illustrate this. The people actually in charge of measuring impact on games saw 0 impact.
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You learned this from all yours years coaching football in the NCAA? The people in charge like Harb, the OC and DC saw the advantage and continued. Just one of your worst post.
 
ellupo said:
You learned this from all yours years coaching football in the NCAA? The people in charge like Harb, the OC and DC saw the advantage and continued. Just one of your worst post.
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lol. You may want to tell Vegas about the huge advantage.
 
ellupo said:
Always so wrong




Its not just my "argument" its the facts. The MI record before Stallions and the MI bowl record. MI needed help.
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they kind of have to with how insane Michigan is being.

Their behavior is pretty unprecedented.
 
ericd7633 said:
Do you not understand that even if Harbaugh didn't know, he's still responsible in some capacity? This is pretty well documented in other cases and precedent has been set before.
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he's been told LOIC several dozen times now.

Jim Tressel only lost his job because he lied to investigators. The penalties likely would've been the same for OSU regardless. And the impacted players were suspended either way.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
lol. You may want to tell Vegas about the huge advantage.
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I can look at that horrible MI record before the cheating and the MI bowl record. Numbers dont lie.
 
ellupo said:
Harbs is responsible for what happens in his program. He created the climate. He is responsible.
I said it's been over a decade since MI won without cheating. I guess you are reading the MI propaganda, Day said he could not change all the signs not enough time. He didn't have the full videos from many other games to analyze like Harbs did.
Its cute you think that somehow deep throat being gone instantly removes the cheatin advantage MI got. Very cute and naive.
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Now Harbaugh was analyzing the videos😂. Priceless.

And Day is going to make every excuse imaginable as he has been grossly out coached the last two years.

My favorite part is - what Day says you take as fact. What Harbaugh says, he is lying and instead was analyzing these sideline signal films😂
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
The big ten admitted they have nothing that ties Harbaugh to it. So unless something new pops out that is confirmed. But again we have to see. This may not even be a violation and we have little precedent here. Even if it is, it’s very easy to make the case of a low level staffer acting alone.
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The B1G doesn't have all the evidence. The NCAA hasn't even finished up their investigation.
In the end, it doesn't matter. Michigan/Harbaugh will get dinged by the NCAA, because there is no such thing as plausible deniability
 
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