Are we still pretending like Albert Pujols' success wasn't dependent on PEDs?

Angels never had any pitching at all and they had straight garbage hitting behind Pujols. Wasn’t even close to Holiday or Berkman. Edmonds or Rolen. Go find me the best hitter the Angels had protecting Pujols. All the while Pujols was hitting behind Trout
That's the point. He was old and broken, knowing he was going to a perennial also-ran team. Blame the Angels for not building a very good team, if you want, but it was a clear money-grab situation for Pujols.
 
I'd say Jeter too just because the reality vs. the New York hype was just so insane.

He was never even the best player on his own team. Really pretty pedestrian, especially defensively.
Especially in the World Series years from 98-2000.

Bernie Williams was the MVP of those teams.
 
Ripken had some pretty great seasons in his first 8-9 seasons, but man, he was an average player at best during his last nine years.

I'd say Jeter was more over-rated, because Jeter's peak doesn't come close to touching Ripken's peak.

if we're being honest, neither guy should have been a first ballot HOFer.
Okay, but Ripken's streak was impressive enough to at least give voters something to talk about. Jeter was merely one small, yet fairly constant cog on a stacked Yankees team (dynasty).
 
That's the point. He was old and broken, knowing he was going to a perennial also-ran team. Blame the Angels for not building a very good team, if you want, but it was a clear money-grab situation for Pujols.

10 year 300 million or 5 year 150 million. Those were the options on the table late 2011. Which one you taking? You do realize the Birds just won the World Series so he wasn’t broken. Lol I watched him be 1 single away from the cycle in a game 2014.

Angels just had some bad luck and bad contracts, along with Trout. But please let us know the best hitter that was hitting behind/protecting AP.
 
10 year 300 million or 5 year 150 million. Those were the options on the table late 2011. Which one you taking? You do realize the Birds just won the World Series so he wasn’t broken. Lol I watched him be 1 single away from the cycle in a game 2014.

Angels just had some bad luck and bad contracts, along with Trout. But please let us know the best hitter that was hitting behind/protecting AP.
10 years 240 million (+ 10 million for a "service contract") versus 8 years 200 million. Again, he knew full well that he was doing a money grab, so blaming the Angels organization doesn't fly. It's not like Pujols knew they weren't a badly run team- despite a massive payroll, were 10 years removed from a world title at the time, and hadn't gotten past the first round of the playoffs more than twice. Since then, the payroll has mostly still been bloated, but only one playoff appearance.

Pujols' contract was a stupid one, and everyone knows it.
 
10 years 240 million (+ 10 million for a "service contract") versus 8 years 200 million. Again, he knew full well that he was doing a money grab, so blaming the Angels organization doesn't fly. It's not like Pujols knew they weren't a badly run team- despite a massive payroll, were 10 years removed from a world title at the time, and hadn't gotten past the first round of the playoffs more than twice. Since then, the payroll has mostly still been bloated, but only one playoff appearance.

Pujols' contract was a stupid one, and everyone knows it.
Lol. It was a money grab either way bud. At the end of 2011, the Moz AP relationship was toast. Lot of details you don’t know and the 8 year 200 million offer was in spring training 2011. That offer wasn’t there after the World Series in 2011. He asked for it
 
Lol. It was a money grab either way bud. At the end of 2011, the Moz AP relationship was toast. Lot of details you don’t know and the 8 year 200 million offer was in spring training 2011. That offer wasn’t there after the World Series in 2011. He asked for it
No, not the same. In one version, he stays with a perennial contender, a fanbase that adored him, contributes to a good lineup and makes a ton of money. In the other, he leaves to go play for a mismanaged dog of a team, have his stats all drop... and makes a ton of money. Blame the GMs, blame the DH, blame the records department of the Dominican Republic- it was still a bad contract. I remember at the time, thinking the Cards had overextended far past what they normally would've, so great was Pujols's reputation.

Hell, the Cards still managed to do well after Pujols's departure, with:

Furcal
Jay
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Freese
Molina
Descalso / Schumacher

And Beltran was the good-ish replacement, at a fraction of the cost.
 
No, not the same. In one version, he stays with a perennial contender, a fanbase that adored him, contributes to a good lineup and makes a ton of money. In the other, he leaves to go play for a mismanaged dog of a team, have his stats all drop... and makes a ton of money. Blame the GMs, blame the DH, blame the records department of the Dominican Republic- it was still a bad contract. I remember at the time, thinking the Cards had overextended far past what they normally would've, so great was Pujols's reputation.

Hell, the Cards still managed to do well after Pujols's departure, with:

Furcal
Jay
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Freese
Molina
Descalso / Schumacher

And Beltran was the good-ish replacement, at a fraction of the cost.

It was lose lose all the way around and a pissing contest by AP and Moz. Pujols agent had a lot of influence from Beverly Hills and that was a problem. The other major problem was Moz. Albert was done with him. And APs wife was ready to move to KC. Many other details in there besides money. Money wasn’t the entire issue. Not sure how else to explain it to you
 
No, not the same. In one version, he stays with a perennial contender, a fanbase that adored him, contributes to a good lineup and makes a ton of money. In the other, he leaves to go play for a mismanaged dog of a team, have his stats all drop... and makes a ton of money. Blame the GMs, blame the DH, blame the records department of the Dominican Republic- it was still a bad contract. I remember at the time, thinking the Cards had overextended far past what they normally would've, so great was Pujols's reputation.

Hell, the Cards still managed to do well after Pujols's departure, with:

Furcal
Jay
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Freese
Molina
Descalso / Schumacher

And Beltran was the good-ish replacement, at a fraction of the cost.
LOL

Lance Berkman, Holliday, Carlos Beltran and Yadier Molina on that team but no one, especially not {gasp} Albert Pujols were doing 'roids.

Come on. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, but Ripken's streak was impressive enough to at least give voters something to talk about. Jeter was merely one small, yet fairly constant cog on a stacked Yankees team (dynasty).
sure, you can at least make an argument for Ripken being a first ballot guy.

There is no argument for Jeter.
 
LOL

Lance Berkman, Holliday, Carlos Beltran and Yadier Molina on that team but no one, especially not {gasp} Albert Pujols were doing 'roids.

Come on. :rolleyes:

So basically everyone was doing PEDs? Guilty by association? Was there anyone successful not using?
 
So basically everyone was doing PEDs? Guilty by association? Was there anyone successful not using?
Yes, but anyone with common sense knows it wasn't any of these: Lance Berkman, Holliday, Carlos Beltran and Yadier Molina, Albert Pujols

You're like my buddy the Angels fans who'll fight anyone to the death that Tim Salmon and Troy Glaus were clean. :happy:
 
I've been completely away from the game for 7+ years now. I ask this question sincerely and would appreciate sincere responses.

Is this out in the open, snickered about, or are we still not really allowed to talk about it without him threatening a defamation suit?
I've never pretended that his or any other professional athlete's success hasn't been dependent on PEDs.
 
It was lose lose all the way around and a pissing contest by AP and Moz. Pujols agent had a lot of influence from Beverly Hills and that was a problem. The other major problem was Moz. Albert was done with him. And APs wife was ready to move to KC. Many other details in there besides money. Money wasn’t the entire issue. Not sure how else to explain it to you
His motivations really don't matter. And money certainly looked like the issue. Pujols's legacy has been tarnished by his mercenary ways and I'm glad I'm not a Cards fan so that I'd have to make that "choice". Perhaps he had gone somewhere that had a shot at winning a pennant or world title, it'd be different. But the Angels, other than the first half of Scioscia's tenure, are a historically crappy franchise -- largely because of deals like Pujols's.
LOL

Lance Berkman, Holliday, Carlos Beltran and Yadier Molina on that team but no one, especially not {gasp} Albert Pujols were doing 'roids.

Come on. :rolleyes:
Maybe. But I've never heard mention of PEDs / roids about any of these players, including Pujols. Carlos Beltran was later proven to be a filthy fucking cheater, when he was the ringleader in Houston with the super sign-stealing operation.
 
His motivations really don't matter. And money certainly looked like the issue. Pujols's legacy has been tarnished by his mercenary ways and I'm glad I'm not a Cards fan so that I'd have to make that "choice". Perhaps he had gone somewhere that had a shot at winning a pennant or world title, it'd be different. But the Angels, other than the first half of Scioscia's tenure, are a historically crappy franchise -- largely because of deals like Pujols's.

Maybe. But I've never heard mention of PEDs / roids about any of these players, including Pujols. Carlos Beltran was later proven to be a filthy fucking cheater, when he was the ringleader in Houston with the super sign-stealing operation.
Carlos Beltran used PEDs and there's less doubt about it than Barry Bonds. All the writers know about it and they know where he got it (Toronto) and who he was getting them from and for.

People in Houston will fight you if you say Craig Biggio used 'roids but it was openly joked about in the Astros clubhouse.

Just because you haven't heard about it is irrelevant.
 
Carlos Beltran used PEDs and there's less doubt about it than Barry Bonds. All the writers know about it and they know where he got it (Toronto) and who he was getting them from and for.

People in Houston will fight you if you say Craig Biggio used 'roids but it was openly joked about in the Astros clubhouse.

Just because you haven't heard about it is irrelevant.

you want to piss people off in houston? talk about banging trash cans. LMAO!!!

these bastards here don't care that they cheated for their WS win.
 
Yes, but anyone with common sense knows it wasn't any of these: Lance Berkman, Holliday, Carlos Beltran and Yadier Molina, Albert Pujols

You're like my buddy the Angels fans who'll fight anyone to the death that Tim Salmon and Troy Glaus were clean. :happy:

I’m not fighting lol just asking. You got it all figured out

I know what I know. Not sure about the other guys
 
I’m not fighting lol just asking. You got it all figured out

I know what I know. Not sure about the other guys
That's just it, man. You don't know. Pujols has that shit buried under so many layers of deception that unless someone very very close to him sings, we'll never know.

It always baffles me when accusing Lance Cheatstrong of using PEDs was taboo. The guy is crushing the records of all the cheaters. Like Greg LeMonde said at the time and got absolutely devastated in the Armstrong-led media, "either he's an alien from outer space or he's using drugs."

I say the same, exact thing about Albert Pujols. He perfectly fits every single identifier of a user of PEDs.
 
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