College Football Expansion - Who is Next and Why

And maybe Miami. Could be a defensive move against the B1G if they would do such a thing.

Clemson, FSU, UNC, Mami and OkSU would probably be the only 5 they would consider. Things might look different in 12 years ... look back 12 years and see how things have changed - conferences expanded, the economic model has changed dramatically.

I see Miami as defensive move as you pointed out. I think FSU is the more attractive Florida option.

I see Oklahoma State dropping off once OU and Texas leave Big12. I think they still will be attractive but numbers won't be what you are posting.

Clemson is one to watch as well. They had a decent fanbase prior to Swinney but if they hit a decline, will they be as attractive in 2034?
 
I see Miami as defensive move as you pointed out. I think FSU is the more attractive Florida option.

I see Oklahoma State dropping off once OU and Texas leave Big12. I think they still will be attractive but numbers won't be what you are posting.

Clemson is one to watch as well. They had a decent fanbase prior to Swinney but if they hit a decline, will they be as attractive in 2034?
Good point on OkSU ... how much of those eyeballs are due to OU and TX.

Same on Clemson.

THe ACC GOR is slowing things down, and that is good. It will be interesting to see the value of any other schools in 10 years. With the bog boys making so much per team, a school really has to bring some juice to the table. I think a lot of people get carried away with wild 32 team conference scenarios and just don't look at the reality of the money.
 
Good point on OkSU ... how much of those eyeballs are due to OU and TX.

Same on Clemson.

THe ACC GOR is slowing things down, and that is good. It will be interesting to see the value of any other schools in 10 years. With the bog boys making so much per team, a school really has to bring some juice to the table. I think a lot of people get carried away with wild 32 team conference scenarios and just don't look at the reality of the money.
Your analysis was well thought out but I do think you are giving OKSU way too much credit and there are plenty of schools on their level that given a schedule that includes a mixture of TX, OU, UGA, Bama, LSU, UF, AU and Tenn and their numbers go up dramatically. I think this would be true for VT, Virginia, GT (note GT isn't in the discussion but if they started playing Auburn and Alabama which are historical rivals numbers would soar), and UNC.

I found it interesting that you placed UNC in both the 20 team SEC and B1G models as I do think there will be competition for them but both can't have them.

You seemed very committed to the thought that the B1G is focused on ND (which is absolutely true) and more teams on the west coast which I'm not so sure of. I think they will look to the ACC pretty heavily and I don't see either major conference pulling anyone from the Big 12 current roster like Okie State (Kansas could be the exception as a bubble team).

I think Duke as a partner for UNC has been underrated in your analysis as well as that rivalry is played twice a year and is the premier basketball rivalry in all of basketball. That game alone has tremendous value on its on and is extremely unique.

The biggest point we disagree on is you are fixated on the point that a team has to bring 100mm in value all by themselves and I don't believe that to be absolute and the UCLA addition to the B1G has proven that. By entering the B1G or SEC a team automatically gets a bump in value and their ratings will improve considerably in most circumstances. You have a great argument for Oregon and Washington to the B1G but it doesn't happen until ND decides to move which could be 10 years and it's very questionable if either of those teams can maintain their relevance in a non-power conference and half the budget to work with.

My last point (which you strongly disagree with but I think is very much worth considering) is that right now even with the new deals the B1G and SEC are grossly undervalued. The NFL if you take all their contracts is worth approximately 10 billion a year and all of their programming has pretty much been sold twice (3 billion for NFL ticket by Apple). That's 32 teams that is just football. If you combine the SEC and B1G that is soon to be 32 teams also which earn about 2 billion with the new deals which is 20% of the NFL value. What the conferences also give you that the NFL does not is thousands of hours of additional programming in other sports that is basically a free add-on. Do not underestimate how badly this additional original programming is needed by the networks to fill their schedules. If ESPN lost that programming what in the hell would they put on all their channels during basketball season? Would we be back to logging competitions? I'm not saying that college football is equal to the NFL but when you add in the additional programming it is worth at least 30 to 35% and especially if they go to just a P2 because that will draw even more eyes. Right now the market is saying that an entire conference and all their content is worth 1 NFL Monday Night game and I don't believe that is anywhere correct and that there is still fruit on the vine. The NFL is tapped out and maybe overvalued to be honest (Apple wanted them bad to grow the subscription base and just paid 3 billion for the NFL ticket) but I don't see the major conferences being close to being tapped out.

Example: If the SEC and B1G went to 100% streaming you have to think they would average 1mm subscribers per school (some schools like OU, TX, Bama, UGA, Aub, Tenn, LSU, aTm would be way over and some like Vandy would be under but even KY would be over a million for basketball alone) and if they charged $10 a month or $120 a year that would be 16,000,000 x 120 or 1.9 billion dollars a year and I think the subscriber number could be greater than 16mm. Add on advertising during live games and you have to think that would be worth another billion a year to almost 3b. I think those types of numbers and thoughts will go into the expansion thinking and it's why I think a school like Duke is in the mix because there are a million Duke basketball fans out there that would order the package.

Now the infrastructure and cost of going 100% streaming has to be considered so that drops the bottom line but I think you can easily put the near future value of these major conferences at around 1.5 to 2 billion each. Wouldn't happen the first day and it would get tremendous pushback from fans but it illustrates there is meat on the bone and that easily compensates the math for adding a Duke, UVA, VT, GT along with FSU, Clemson, Miami and UNC. In the future I think a key metric will be how many fans would be willing to spend $120 a year for a subscription (note the NFL ticket is $300 and you just get football).
 
ACC is still the strongest of the rest. West Virginia would join the ACC in a heart beat and frankly belongs in the ACC with its other rival teams.

After West Virginia, not many teams make sense from the ACC unless they just go bold and add Pac12 teams like Oregon and Washington. I hope they stop calling themselves ACC at that point.
While I agree WVU belongs in the ACC, I don’t think they’ll ever go. It feels like a bunch of ACC schools will bolt when the GoR ends in 2036 (at the latest) WVU going to a doomed conference for 13 years with virtually no lifeline after isn’t something that makes sense. Ohh and those pussies on Tobacco Road will never invite us while they still occupy space there.
 
New PAC 16

Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal
Utah
Colorado

Arizona
ASU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Kansas
KState
Baylor
Iowa State

New Big 12

Houston
TCU
SDSU
Boise
SMU
BYU

WVU
Cincy
Memphis
UCF
USF
Temple


Markets, brands, geography.... run with it. What say you @ralphiewvu ? Look about right til the ACC gets nailed?
 
Last edited:
New PAC 16

Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal
Utah
Colorado

Arizona
ASU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Kansas
KState
Baylor
Iowa State

New Big 12

Houston
TCU
SDSU
Boise
SMU
BYU

WVU
Cincy
Memphis
UCF
USF
Temple


Markets, brands, geography.... run with it. What say you @ralphiewvu ? Look about right til the ACC gets nailed?
Bored Barbra Streisand GIF
 
For what it is though... its brilliant, cuts down on the crazy travel (they will need to make cuts anyway to save money) and gives us regional rival games ect, to enjoy as fans and in the B12 case they still have room on the slate to schedule some OOC games of interest (WVU/VT/Pitt?Marshall, OSU/Tulsa, ect,) to get some fans in the stands on campus.
 
Last edited:
2. Lack of a lot of mid-major options in their region. SEC has Sunbelt, American, and Conf USA teams all over its footprints. Most SEC schools have 3-5 mid-majors within stone throw. Pac12 has Boise State, UNLV, San Diego State, San Jose State, and Fresno State. That is about it.
Utah State, Up til the mover BYU, Nevada, Colorado State, Air Force, wyoming, New Mexico,, New Mexico state, Wyoming
Basically the whole mountain west conferece
then there are also really good FCS teams in the area
Sacramento state, Montana and Montana state, Eastern washington, San Diego
 
New PAC 16

Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal
Utah
Colorado

Arizona
ASU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Kansas
KState
Baylor
Iowa State

New Big 12

Houston
TCU
SDSU
Boise
SMU
BYU

WVU
Cincy
Memphis
UCF
USF
Temple


Markets, brands, geography.... run with it. What say you @ralphiewvu ? Look about right til the ACC gets nailed?
Pac likely takes a BYU or TCU ahead of Iowa State
 
Pac likely takes a BYU or TCU ahead of Iowa State
Yeah, BYU probably has a larger following than most Big 12 or Pac 12 schools. Hell, they could probably draw more eyeballs than some B1G and SEC teams if they were playing similar opponents instead of having to play G5s or lower level P5s. JMO
 
Pac likely takes a BYU or TCU ahead of Iowa State
I would too, bigger, better brand I'd swap Iowa State for BYU in a heartbeat for the rival game alone but just heard so much about the anti BYU stuff from PAC members in the past I figured they'd buck up again but.... they may realize that they need to put that behind em now.
 
Utah State, Up til the mover BYU, Nevada, Colorado State, Air Force, wyoming, New Mexico,, New Mexico state, Wyoming
Basically the whole mountain west conferece
then there are also really good FCS teams in the area
Sacramento state, Montana and Montana state, Eastern washington, San Diego

You are having to list teams that are 100s of miles away from Pac12.

Look at any SEC team, there are typically 5-6 small mid-majors within in a 2 hour drive. You have teams from the Sunbelt, Conf USA, and American in our back yard. Out West, you just have the MWC and they are also pretty spread out like Pac12 teams.

It disadvantages you guys in a lot of ways.

You are pointing out Utah State for Oregon, that is like Tennessee playing Buffalo or a distant MAC team.
 
You are having to list teams that are 100s of miles away from Pac12.

Look at any SEC team, there are typically 5-6 small mid-majors within in a 2 hour drive. You have teams from the Sunbelt, Conf USA, and American in our back yard. Out West, you just have the MWC and they are also pretty spread out like Pac12 teams.

It disadvantages you guys in a lot of ways.

You are pointing out Utah State for Oregon, that is like Tennessee playing Buffalo or a distant MAC team.

no i was pointing out that Utah state is in the Pac 12 footprint by way of being 1.5 hour drive from utah.


BYU less than an hour to Utah
Cal to Nevada is about 3.5 but you listed UNLV which is farther to any Pac school
Colorado to CSU about 1 hour
CU to Air Force 1.5
CU to Wyoming 2 hours
Arizona to New mexico state about 4 hours
and the second listing of Wyoming i meant UTEP which is just over that 4 hours to Arizona

new mexico state prob the most out of the way at 6 hours
 
no i was pointing out that Utah state is in the Pac 12 footprint by way of being 1.5 hour drive from utah.


BYU less than an hour to Utah
Cal to Nevada is about 3.5 but you listed UNLV which is farther to any Pac school
Colorado to CSU about 1 hour
CU to Air Force 1.5
CU to Wyoming 2 hours
Arizona to New mexico state about 4 hours
and the second listing of Wyoming i meant UTEP which is just over that 4 hours to Arizona

new mexico state prob the most out of the way at 6 hours
NMSU is closer to all of ‘em than my guys but only by about 30 minutes the two of us ( and UNM for that matter) ain’t really close to anyone. At least by the way most people measure. But we think nothing of driving 90 miles just to go to a doctor or have lunch!
 
New PAC 16

Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal
Utah
Colorado

Arizona
ASU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Kansas
KState
Baylor
Iowa State

New Big 12

Houston
TCU
SDSU
Boise
SMU
BYU

WVU
Cincy
Memphis
UCF
USF
Temple


Markets, brands, geography.... run with it. What say you @ralphiewvu ? Look about right til the ACC gets nailed?
You trying to kill me?
 
Top