Poll HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 4 Wilkinson vs 12 Bowden

[iowajerms]

The winner of this round advances to the semifinals and faces the winner of Saban/Devaney (Matchup #13). The loser will face Dabo Swinney in Elimination Round 2.

Poll is open for 4 days

Quarterfinals | Week 7

Matchup #13 (link) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #9 seed Bob Devaney
Matchup #14 (This thread) - #4 Bud Wilkinson vs #12 seed Bobby Bowden

View attachment 22243

Spoiler: Pre-Tournament Threads

HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Entry Thread

I am thinking 16-seed double-elimination bracket with semifinal losers going for 3rd, but could change on how these early threads go. Which coaches do you think should be included in this bracket? Don't have to rank them, just list.

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bracket Builder #1

The main purpose of this thread is to filter out those who will not be in the 16-man bracket. We will have two "Bracket Builder" threads and a "Seeding" thread. The seeding thread will be another thread like this thread, but will use the results to determine the seeds in the tournament. Vote...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bracket Builder #2

Vote for the maximum 8 coaches you feel are the greatest on this list of 18 coaches. The top 12-16 (depending on results) will make the Seeding thread. Poll is open for 4 days. Will be able to vote and change vote until close. These 12 coaches from Bracket Builder #1 thread advances to the...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Seeding Thread

This thread will determine which 16 will make the tournament and what seed they receive. Coaches winning percentage will decide tie breakers. You have 4 days to vote for 8 coaches. Here is what the bracket looks like.

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bottom Feeders

There was a coach I forgot to add, so here is a poll that will give him a chance - I am going to make one more poll before the tournament begins. This poll will determine seeds 13-16. You will be able to vote for 4 of these. Poll is open for 2 days. And again, seeds will be determined by...

hooplanation.com

Spoiler: Round 1

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - 1 Saban vs 16 Heisman

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 1 Matchup #1 (this thread) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #2 (link) - #8...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - 8 Robinson vs 9 Devaney

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 1 Matchup #1 (link) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #16 John Heisman Matchup #2 (this thread) - #8...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 5 Meyer vs 12 Bowden

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 2 Matchup #3 (this thread) - #1...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 4 Wilkinson vs 13 Rockne

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 2 Matchup #3 (link) - #5 seed...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 3 Osborne vs 14 Warner

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 3 Matchup #5 (This thread) - #3...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 6 Switzer vs 11 Swinney

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 3 Matchup #5 (link) - #3 seed Tom...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 7 Hayes vs 10 Paterno

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 4 Matchup #7 (This thread) - #7 seed Woody Hayes vs #10 seed Joe Paterno Matchup #8 (link) - #2...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 2 Bryant vs 15 Spurrier

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 4 Matchup #7 (link) - #7 seed Woody Hayes vs #10 seed Joe Paterno Matchup #8 (This thread) - #2...

hooplanation.com

Spoiler: Elimination Round 1

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 8 Robinson vs 16 Heisman

Almost forgot about this. Been quite busy. Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bear Bryant/Woody Hayes (Matchup #16) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #9 (This thread) - #8 seed Eddie Robinson vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #10 (link)...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 5 Meyer vs 13 Rockne

Almost forgot about this. Been quite busy. Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bear Tom Osborne/Barry Switzer (Matchup #15) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #9 (link) - #8 seed Eddie Robinson vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #10 (This...

hooplanation.com

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 11 Swinney vs 14 Warner

Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bobby Bowden/Bud Wilkinson (Matchup #14) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #11 (This thread) - #11 seed Dabo Swinney vs #14 seed Pop Warner Matchup #12 (link) - #10 seed Joe Paterno vs #15 seed Steve...

hooplanation.com

HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 10 Paterno vs 15 Spurrier

Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Nick Saban/Bob Devaney (Matchup #13) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #11 (link) - #11 seed Dabo Swinney vs #14 seed Pop Warner Matchup #12 (This thread) - #10 seed Joe Paterno vs #15 seed Steve...

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[outofyourmind]

Some Neat Facts:

Bud Wilkinson won his first 100 games faster than any other coach. It only took 112 games to get there.

Bud Wilkinson won 74 Conference games in a row. Yeah, wrap your head around that.

Bud Wilkinson not only had the 47 game winning streak, but also had a 31 game win streak. Only coach to ever do it.

Bud Wilkinson won 12 Consecutive Conference Championships. Only coach to ever do it.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

The answer is Bowden, but Oklahoma and Nebraska never loses an internet poll. Impressive really.

 

[outofyourmind]

The answer is Bowden

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

The moment you or any other Oklahoma fan makes a comment that isn't nothing but blind homerism, that post will have meaning, until then, use words, not gifs.

 

[outofyourmind]

The moment you or any other Oklahoma fan makes a comment that isn't nothing but blind homerism, that post will have meaning, until then, use words, not gifs.

I guess you missed this part

Some Neat Facts:

Bud Wilkinson won his first 100 games faster than any other coach. It only took 112 games to get there.

Bud Wilkinson won 74 Conference games in a row. Yeah, wrap your head around that.

Bud Wilkinson not only had the 47 game winning streak, but also had a 31 game win streak. Only coach to ever do it.

Bud Wilkinson won 12 Consecutive Conference Championships. Only coach to ever do it.

That isn't homerism, it's fact.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I guess you missed this part




That isn't homerism, it's fact.

Listed nothing of Bowden and how he turned Florida State into a power house when they were a garbage program before he came along. Listing all the accomplishments of one without mentioning the other is homerism.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Listed nothing of Bowden and how he turned Florida State into a power house when they were a garbage program before he came along. Listing all the accomplishments of one without mentioning the other is homerism.

That was actually the reason I picked Wilkinson. Oklahoma wasn't exactly a perennial power before Bud, but they were after. And obviously, Bud has incredible records, including 3 NCs, 13 straight conference titles, insane winning streak, etc. That's why I voted for him.

Full disclosure, I wasn't happy doing it though.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

That was actually the reason I picked Wilkinson. Oklahoma wasn't exactly a perennial power before Bud, but they were after. And obviously, Bud has incredible records, including 3 NCs, 13 straight conference titles, insane winning streak, etc. That's why I voted for him.

Full disclosure, I wasn't happy doing it though.

Oklahoma before Bud was in a better place than FSU was before Bowden. Bowden's run of top 5 finishes is incredible, and it's likely he would have passed Bud's conference title record had FSU joined the ACC earlier, they were independent prior to 1992, thus had no conference to win. They were so far above the rest of the competition in that conference, it was ridiculous. Bowden only has two natties, but Bowden had to actually you know, win his bowl game to get his natties, there was no losing to Kentucky in the bowl game and still getting crowned champions like Bud had.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Oklahoma before Bud was in a better place than FSU was before Bowden. Bowden's run of top 5 finishes is incredible, and it's likely he would have passed Bud's conference title record had FSU joined the ACC earlier, they were independent prior to 1992, thus had no conference to win. They were so far above the rest of the competition in that conference, it was ridiculous. Bowden only has two natties, but Bowden had to actually you know, win his bowl game to get his natties, there was no losing to Kentucky in the bowl game and still getting crowned champions like Bud had.

Possibly, even still Bud did it all in 17 years. Bowden in 34. Plus Bud has a better winning percentage.

Bud Wilkinson


Bobby Bowden

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Possibly, even still Bud did it all in 17 years. Bowden in 34. Plus Bud has a better winning percentage.

Bud Wilkinson
View attachment 22250

Bobby Bowden
View attachment 22251

Taking over a trash program and hanging on too long hurts Bowden's numbers, you have to go beyond numbers and look at the situations and other factors. I'll take Bowden every single time.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Taking over a trash program and hanging on too long hurts Bowden's numbers, you have to go beyond numbers and look at the situations and other factors. I'll take Bowden every single time.

I am not saying it's easy or that Bowden isn't a great coach, but Wilkinson simply did more in less time.

Without a doubt though, without those two coaches, I doubt either of these programs are as respected as they are now.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I am not saying it's easy or that Bowden isn't a great coach, but Wilkinson simply did more in less time.

Without a doubt though, without those two coaches, I doubt either of these programs are as respected as they are now.

Did he really do more though?

One of those natties, they lost to Kentucky in the bowl game. Kentucky had the same record. That's another natty for Bear Bryant as far as I'm concerned, and FSU had no conference to win in the 80's. He won the ACC the first 9 years FSU was in that conference. Really, Bowden and FSU are a big reason why the ACC got an Orange Bowl tie in and became a major conference that was later able to add Miami, VT and BC.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Did he really do more though?

One of those natties, they lost to Kentucky in the bowl game. Kentucky had the same record. That's another natty for Bear Bryant as far as I'm concerned, and FSU had no conference to win in the 80's. He won the ACC the first 9 years FSU was in that conference. Really, Bowden and FSU are a big reason why the ACC got an Orange Bowl tie in and became a major conference that was later able to add Miami, VT and BC.

I edited my previous post, but I will just change it back and add it here.

You take points away from Wilkinson for being at a school that was well established. Oklahoma wasn't great before, but they were certainly established. If you can do that, then some major points have to be taken away from Bowden for having arguably the hottest recruiting grounds in the entire country. Even Schnellenberger showed that someone could come in, recruit the state well, and dominate. Miami was hot garbage, worse than FSU and Schnellenberger turned them around in 5 years and began what would be a decade of dominance in the 80's that carried over through multiple coaches.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I edited my previous post, but I will just change it back and add it here.

You take points away from Wilkinson for being at a school that was well established. Oklahoma wasn't great before, but they were certainly established. If you can do that, then some major points have to be taken away from Bowden for having arguably the hottest recruiting grounds in the entire country. Even Schnellenberger showed that someone could come in, recruit the state well, and dominate. Miami was hot garbage, worse than FSU and Schnellenberger turned them around in 5 years and began what would be a decade of dominance in the 80's that carried over through multiple coaches.

I take away points from Wilkinson because one of his natties wasn't legit. FSU didn't field a team until the 40's, which is really late to the party, they were nothing before Bowden. Bowden built that program from nothing.

And are we gonna pretend that Texas wasn't a recruiting hotbed? It's right next door to Oklahoma.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

I take away points from Wilkinson because one of his natties wasn't legit. FSU didn't field a team until the 40's, which is really late to the party, they were nothing before Bowden. Bowden built that program from nothing.

And are we gonna pretend that Texas wasn't a recruiting hotbed? It's right next door to Oklahoma.

I'm not saying Texas isn't a hotbed, but it certainly isn't Florida and it certainly helps to literally be in the kid's backyard as opposed to a few hundred miles away. Again, this is evidenced by Miami getting good at the same time. The U 30for30s cover this too, that Miami was considering getting rid of football because of how bad they were, 5 years later they are a dynasty, winning titles. Not many places in the country can turn their entire program around without leaving the state much. I think that matters. Look at UCF. They started playing in 1996 and are already practically a perennial top 25 team. I think it is pretty evident that where you exist in the country matters quite a bit.

The crazy part is that even if you take one of his natties away, he ties Bowden in that regard, but everything else already mentioned still remains. So again, I think it is boiling down to the points you are giving for where the program was at at the time they took over.

Still...
Bud has the better win streak, one that will likely never be broken.
Bud has more conference titles despite Bowden coaching longer (yes, Bowden may have had more if they were in a conference before... but they weren't. And that doesn't excuse him not getting more conference titles once they joined)
Bud has a better winning percentage.
Bud had 4 undefeated seasons, 3 of which were back to back to back. Bowden lost a game in every season but 1.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I'm not saying Texas isn't a hotbed, but it certainly isn't Florida and it certainly helps to literally be in the kid's backyard as opposed to a few hundred miles away. Again, this is evidenced by Miami getting good at the same time. The U 30for30s cover this too, that Miami was considering getting rid of football because of how bad they were, 5 years later they are a dynasty, winning titles. Not many places in the country can turn their entire program around without leaving the state much. I think that matters. Look at UCF. They started playing in 1996 and are already practically a perennial top 25 team. I think it is pretty evident that where you exist in the country matters quite a bit.

The crazy part is that even if you take one of his natties away, he ties Bowden in that regard, but everything else already mentioned still remains. So again, I think it is boiling down to the points you are giving for where the program was at at the time they took over.

Still...
Bud has the better win streak, one that will likely never be broken.
Bud has more conference titles despite Bowden coaching longer (yes, Bowden may have had more if they were in a conference before... but they weren't. And that doesn't excuse him not getting more conference titles once they joined)
Bud has a better winning percentage.
Bud had 4 undefeated seasons, 3 of which were back to back to back. Bowden lost a game in every season but 1.

UCF a perirenal top 25 team? They had a 2 year run and have been on the decline ever since. Bowden was the one to get the recruits to come to FSU. They never did before.

Bowden won 12 ACC titles. They joined the ACC in 1992. They were a top independent before then. I guess just go ahead and disqualify any of the old Notre Dame coaches since they have a grand total of 0 conference titles.

Bowden's winning percentage is hurt by hanging around too long, and taking over a program that was trash. The prime years are very comparable.

Bowden was playing Miami and Florida every year. You know, two other powerhouses of Bowden's time.

If you're not willing to look beyond numbers at the other factors, I have no interest in continuing this discussion.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

UCF a perirenal top 25 team? They had a 2 year run and have been on the decline ever since.

Perennial might have been a little strong, but they started in 96. Have 6 conference titles, 11 bowls, finished ranked 5 times. I would consider UCF a success story thus far.

Bowden was the one to get the recruits to come to FSU. They never did before.

Same could be said about Miami/Schnellenberger or UCF/O'Leary.

Bowden won 12 ACC titles. They joined the ACC in 1992. They were a top independent before then. I guess just go ahead and disqualify any of the old Notre Dame coaches since they have a grand total of 0 conference titles.

1. I would love to disregard all of the Notre Dame coaches.
2. FSU was independent... so what? Bowden had twice as many years coaching including more years in a conference.

Bud = 17 years college level, all in a conference.
Bobby = 34 years college level, 18 in a conference.

That's just not an excuse.

Bowden's winning percentage is hurt by hanging around too long, and taking over a program that was trash. The prime years are very comparable.

Hanging around too long... so Bud should be penalized for getting out at the right time? Bowden should get a pass for continuing to coach at the same school? Make that make sense.

If you're not willing to look beyond numbers at the other factors, I have no interest in continuing this discussion.

You can go get high on some DMT or whatever and look into the 'beyond' all you want. Facts are facts.

 

[outofyourmind]

 

[Cowboyinexile]

Bud Wilkinson was a coach 70 years ago when he 3 yards and a cloud of dust were enough. Bowden is was the shit in the 90's and him and Spurrier gave us Florida football and the spread offensive.

This is a clear choice.