Poll HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 4 Wilkinson vs 12 Bowden

[outofyourmind]

Bobby Bowden was 0-4 vs Oklahoma.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Perennial might have been a little strong, but they started in 96. Have 6 conference titles, 11 bowls, finished ranked 5 times. I would consider UCF a success story thus far.

Same could be said about Miami/Schnellenberger or UCF/O'Leary.

1. I would love to disregard all of the Notre Dame coaches.
2. FSU was independent... so what? Bowden had twice as many years coaching including more years in a conference.

Bud = 17 years college level, all in a conference.
Bobby = 34 years college level, 18 in a conference.

That's just not an excuse.

Hanging around too long... so Bud should be penalized for getting out at the right time? Bowden should get a pass for continuing to coach at the same school? Make that make sense.

You can go get high on some DMT or whatever and look into the 'beyond' all you want. Facts are facts.

UCF's entire history is full of peaks and valleys. They've had some great teams to go with some truly God awful teams. Also, G5 program, not a good comparison.

Same might could be said, but it's meaningless here. This is about Bowden>>>Wilkinson.

It absolutely is an excuse, and the fact it has to be stated is face palm worthy.

Bud doesn't get penalized, he gets credit for an undeserved natty that I lose respect for any Oklahoma fan that claims it.

Facts are facts, there's factors and different situations behind those facts, just blindly listing numbers proves jack shit. Open your mind.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

UCF's entire history is full of peaks and valleys. They've had some great teams to go with some truly God awful teams. Also, G5 program, not a good comparison.

Same might could be said, but it's meaningless here. This is about Bowden>>>Wilkinson.

I would argue that it is even more difficult for a G5 team to compete for recruits. This may be about Bowden and Wilkinson, but my point is that Bowden had a considerably easier time with recruiting. That matters.

It absolutely is an excuse, and the fact it has to be stated is face palm worthy.

In what fucking world? Bowden was able to get his team established before he ever entered a conference, then he enters... has more years and fewer conference titles. There is no excuse. The only thing face palm worthy is someone arguing that someone that coached more years in a conference, but has fewer titles is somehow better than someone that has more titles in fewer years.

I lose respect for any Oklahoma fan that claims it.

I'm fine with that.

Facts are facts, there's factors and different situations behind those facts, just blindly listing numbers proves jack shit. Open your mind.

The fact is that there is no true quantifiable way to measure most of this, hence people rely on actual, factual statistics. Hence titles, conference titles, wins, winning percentage, years coaching, awards, streaks, etc... matter. You attempting to claim that the 80's and 90's were different compared to the 40's and 50's is a no brainer, it also offers zero way to quantifying anything. This open your mind is faux-intellectualism is nonsense.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I would argue that it is even more difficult for a G5 team to compete for recruits. This may be about Bowden and Wilkinson, but my point is that Bowden had a considerably easier time with recruiting. That matters.

In what fucking world? Bowden was able to get his team established before he ever entered a conference, then he enters... has more years and fewer conference titles. There is no excuse. The only thing face palm worthy is someone arguing that someone that coached more years in a conference, but has fewer titles is somehow better than someone that has more titles in fewer years.

I'm fine with that.

The fact is that there is no true quantifiable way to measure most of this, hence people rely on actual, factual statistics. Hence titles, conference titles, wins, winning percentage, years coaching, awards, streaks, etc... matter. You attempting to claim that the 80's and 90's were different compared to the 40's and 50's is a no brainer, it also offers zero way to quantifying anything. This open your mind is faux-intellectualism is nonsense.

That's why UCF doesn't come close to outrecruiting any major program.

Half of Bowden's prime years were spent as an independent, it was years before he even lost a conference game once he joined the ACC and won the conference his first 9 years. His decline started in the early 2000's, which will happen to any coach that hangs around long enough other than Saban(that's why he's the GOAT). You really think FSU wouldn't have dominated the ACC in the 80's and first part of the 90's? This is a pretty simple concept here, if you can't grasp it, I can't help you, sorry.

You've gotta be able to use independent thought in these things. Wilkinson played in an 8 team conference, wasn't playing teams near the level of Miami and Florida every year, and he took over an established program and didn't hang around too long. What Bowden did is far more impressive in my eyes.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

That's why UCF doesn't come close to outrecruiting any major program.

Never said they did. Are you really not understanding this point?

Half of Bowden's prime years were spent as an independent, it was years before he even lost a conference game once he joined the ACC and won the conference his first 9 years. His decline started in the early 2000's, which will happen to any coach that hangs around long enough other than Saban(that's why he's the GOAT). You really think FSU wouldn't have dominated the ACC in the 80's and first part of the 90's? This is a pretty simple concept here, if you can't grasp it, I can't help you, sorry.

This is my point, you are excusing Bowdens own failures of coaching. It doesn't matter what I think would have happened in the 80's because they weren't part of that conference. It is ultimately completely irrelevant. It is the equivalent of asking what would happen if a 90's team played a 50's team.... yeah, a mediocre 90's could probably beat one of the better 50's teams, a lot has changed. Again, there is no true quantifiable way of verifying any of this. You saying "you really think FSU wouldn't have dominated the ACC in the 80's" is irrelevant. What I do know is that Bowden continued to coach (which is what we are discussing here, so we will continue to take even his bad years) and had more opportunities at a conference title than Wilkinson did, yet Wilkinson has more conference titles. There is no way around that.

You've gotta be able to use independent thought in these things.

You have to be able to be pragmatic and understand what is knowable and what is conjecture. Would FSU have dominated the ACC in the 80's? Possibly, no way of knowing. Hell, maybe they would have dominated the ACC in the 50's too, but again, there is no way in knowing.

Wilkinson played in an 8 team conference, wasn't playing teams near the level of Miami and Florida every year, and he took over an established program and didn't hang around too long. What Bowden did is far more impressive in my eyes.

Whatever bro, vote however you want - you think those 15 people are wrong, the 3 think you are wrong... and the votes aren't gonna change.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Never said they did. Are you really not understanding this point?

This is my point, you are excusing Bowdens own failures of coaching. It doesn't matter what I think would have happened in the 80's because they weren't part of that conference. It is ultimately completely irrelevant. It is the equivalent of asking what would happen if a 90's team played a 50's team.... yeah, a mediocre 90's could probably beat one of the better 50's teams, a lot has changed. Again, there is no true quantifiable way of verifying any of this. You saying "you really think FSU wouldn't have dominated the ACC in the 80's" is irrelevant. What I do know is that Bowden continued to coach (which is what we are discussing here, so we will continue to take even his bad years) and had more opportunities at a conference title than Wilkinson did, yet Wilkinson has more conference titles. There is no way around that.

You have to be able to be pragmatic and understand what is knowable and what is conjecture. Would FSU have dominated the ACC in the 80's? Possibly, no way of knowing. Hell, maybe they would have dominated the ACC in the 50's too, but again, there is no way in knowing.

Whatever bro, vote however you want - you think those 15 people are wrong, the 3 think you are wrong... and the votes aren't gonna change.

I understand your point, I just think UCF is a piss poor example.

I'm not excusing anything, but you get a better picture when you look at the prime years, nobody talks about Willie Mays' time with the Mets. I mean, Bowden's teams finished ranked in the top 5 14 straight years from 1987-2000. Bud Wilkinson's teams finished in the top 5 10 times total. That's with playing two of the other powerhouses of that span every year in non conference play. You're knocking a guy for spending half of his prime as an independent, which is laughable considering Notre Dame is one of the GOAT programs and has always been an independent "Jim Grobe has more conference titles than Knute Rockne, Grobe is totes better"

You look at what the two coaches stepped into, and the choice is clear. I can't help it that 15 people are either blind homers or not capable of thinking for themselves.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

I understand your point, I just think UCF is a piss poor example.

I'm not excusing anything, but you get a better picture when you look at the prime years, nobody talks about Willie Mays' time with the Mets. I mean, Bowden's teams finished ranked in the top 5 14 straight years from 1987-2000. Bud Wilkinson's teams finished in the top 5 10 times total. That's with playing two of the other powerhouses of that span every year in non conference play. You're knocking a guy for spending half of his prime as an independent, which is laughable considering Notre Dame is one of the GOAT programs and has always been an independent "Jim Grobe has more conference titles than Knute Rockne, Grobe is totes better"

You look at what the two coaches stepped into, and the choice is clear. I can't help it that 15 people are either blind homers or not capable of thinking for themselves.

I'm not knocking anyone, I am taking what they have to offer. You are the one looking at the facts and saying... 'no, don't like that, let's get rid of conference titles. Nope, don't like that either, let's get rid of that national title' - you are doing mental gymnastics to get the outcome that you want. You are the one knocking a guy for being awarded a national title that you don't like, for coaching in a conference in his better years, for coaching in the 40'-60's. And now you are making ridiculous red herrings.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I'm not knocking anyone, I am taking what they have to offer. You are the one looking at the facts and saying... 'no, don't like that, let's get rid of conference titles. Nope, don't like that either, let's get rid of that national title' - you are doing mental gymnastics to get the outcome that you want. You are the one knocking a guy for being awarded a national title that you don't like, for coaching in a conference in his better years, for coaching in the 40'-60's. And now you are making ridiculous red herrings.

I'm gonna need you to find where I said anything about the era Wilkinson coached in as a knock.

I never said get rid of conference titles, I said it's ridiculous that you think Bowden spending half his time at FSU as an Independent is a knock, and it is.

They had the same record as Kentucky and lost the bowl game to Kentucky. That's not a legit title.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

I'm gonna need you to find where I said anything about the era Wilkinson coached in as a knock.

I never said get rid of conference titles, I said it's ridiculous that you think Bowden spending half his time at FSU as an Independent is a knock, and it is..

I never said it was a knock. I said that Bowden competed for conference titles more years and has less, that is a fact.

They had the same record as Kentucky and lost the bowl game to Kentucky. That's not a legit title.

Look I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. Much like I have said about the 1970 title where Ohio St and Texas both claim it, even though Nebraska was the only one that went undefeated. But, titles were awarded back then. I am sure there are a lot that I disagree with, but that doesn't matter.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I never said it was a knock. I said that Bowden competed for conference titles more years and has less, that is a fact.

Look I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. Much like I have said about the 1970 title where Ohio St and Texas both claim it, even though Nebraska was the only one that went undefeated. But, titles were awarded back then. I am sure there are a lot that I disagree with, but that doesn't matter.

But you have nothing to say about 14 straight top 5 finishes, and no answer for the first line of previous post?

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

But you have nothing to say about 14 straight top 5 finishes,

Sure I do... that's cute.

@outofyourmind
Bud Wilkinson won his first 100 games faster than any other coach. It only took 112 games to get there.

Bud Wilkinson won 74 Conference games in a row. Yeah, wrap your head around that.

Bud Wilkinson not only had the 47 game winning streak, but also had a 31 game win streak. Only coach to ever do it.

Bud Wilkinson won 12 Consecutive Conference Championships. Only coach to ever do it.

and no answer for the first line of previous post?

If you aren't knocking his era via the competition that existed at the time, then whatever. Florida wasn't much in the 70's and 80's. And you keep saying things like 'take their prime years', that is a false equivalence. You are taking Wilkinsons years as they are and Bowden, you are picking over 34 years because he has twice the time. Bowden also has nearly 4 times the losses. I mean you want to take all of Wilkinsons years and not count Bowdens until 87... 11 years after his start with FSU which also happens to be closer than not to Wilkinsons complete time with Oklahoma.

Yeah Bowden has 15 top 5 finishes and Wilkinson has 10 top 5 finishes... and yet, one of these coaches had twice as many years.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Sure I do... that's cute.

@outofyourmind
Bud Wilkinson won his first 100 games faster than any other coach. It only took 112 games to get there.

Bud Wilkinson won 74 Conference games in a row. Yeah, wrap your head around that.

Bud Wilkinson not only had the 47 game winning streak, but also had a 31 game win streak. Only coach to ever do it.

Bud Wilkinson won 12 Consecutive Conference Championships. Only coach to ever do it.

If you aren't knocking his era via the competition that existed at the time, then whatever. Florida wasn't much in the 70's and 80's. And you keep saying things like 'take their prime years', that is a false equivalence. You are taking Wilkinsons years as they are and Bowden, you are picking over 34 years because he has twice the time. Bowden also has nearly 4 times the losses. I mean you want to take all of Wilkinsons years and not count Bowdens until 87... 11 years after his start with FSU which also happens to be closer than not to Wilkinsons complete time with Oklahoma.

Yeah Bowden has 15 top 5 finishes and Wilkinson has 10 top 5 finishes... and yet, one of these coaches had twice as many years.

You’re resorted to copying previous posts by other posters? LOL. Just up at that point, bud. Gonna post a funny gif or use emojis next?

And LOL @ you thinking mentioning Florida State played two power houses in non conference every year as a knock on Wilkinson’s era. How do you even reach that conclusion?

14 straight top 5 finishes. That 14 year run Bowden had is more impressive than anything Wilkinson did.

 

[Kevin12773]

Sorry Chewy.....Bud>>>>>>Bobby no matter how many words you type

 

[outofyourmind]

No coach did what Bud Wilkinson did in the short amount of time he coached.

Sure if a Coach stays in the game 20-30-40 years to get there, then I guess that counts for something.


Bud Wilkinson learned much of what he knew from Bernie Bierman, the Coach he played for at Minnesota.
He was the Quarterback, and he won 3 National Championships there.

 

[outofyourmind]

Bud Wilkinson started the first Coaches Show in the nation.
And is still on today with Lincoln Riley, and is the longest running uninterrupted Coaches Show in the nation.

 

[outofyourmind]

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Sorry Chewy.....Bud>>>>>>Bobby no matter how many words you type

Sounds like blind homerism to me.

 

[occupant]

5 ignorant hating bitches up in hurr

 

[outofyourmind]

 

[Wishbone]

Okay so every person agrees except for Chewy(shocker) lets move on.....