More Michigan Cheating

[Wild Turkey]

The regulations on boosters in the NCAA Rulebook are almost exclusively applied to recruiting. They are not actually in any way connected to the scouting rules. #1. And #2, in order to be a booster there are a set list of like 5 items you would need to meet to be considered one. And just asking friends to go to games to record them would not qualify you as an athletics booster under the NCAA's own definition.

The money is also irrelevant. there's no NCAA rule against buying tickets for people or giving money to people to buy tickets for people.

I would agree there is no NCAA rule that boosters can't scout. What is against the rule is for booster to obtain scouting information that is not within the rules of the NCAA and Michigan, paying expenses and using that information thus encouraging the behavior. Once a school does that then the booster has been turned from an independent booster to an active agent of the athletic department.

I get you want this to not be against the rules but you're fucked and the sooner you come to that realization the better. What is in your favor is that the NCAA is toothless and more than likely you see a slap on the wrist, banning of the boosters from Michigan events, forfeiting of games and maybe the loss of a couple of scholarships if you cooperate. If you don't then the NCAA can throw the lack of institutional control at you and put a show cause of Harbaugh who has past infractions as it is.

I'm not going to tell Michigan what to do but I would go all humble and negotiate and out on this one.

 

[osubuckeye89]

I won't be shocked at all if Michigan pulls the plug on Harbaugh before the NCAA gets a chance to.

Nobody higher up there is going to stick their head out for him on this, they will boot him very quickly to try to protect the universities reputation if it comes down to it

 

[fishinabarrel]

Literally all 200. There were 18 different level 1 violations, spanning 200 incidents.

"200 infractions, including 18 level 1 in nature" does not mean they committed 18 different level 1 infractions 200 times you knucklehead

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

He quoted your post that said Tenn committed over 200 infractions, 18 of them level 1 and said "see 200 level 1 violations"

I call him out on it and he quotes a sentence again saying 200 violations 18 of them Level 1 as if he got me.

I don't know how to win an argument with that

I read that to mean that they violated 18 different level 1 rules on 200 occasions. Is that wrong? Maybe it is. So is it 18 level 1 violations and 182 level 2? I'm not sure it really matters though to the point. A massive amount of rules violations. No where in the scope of what we're talking about here.

 

[Wild Turkey]

No, there wasn't. There have been 31 tickets purchased. And of those, you'd need to prove how many had people recording at them or video footage used. And of those, we don't even know if they would be categorized as level 1 infractions. And they'd all be grouped under only 1-2 level 1 infractions (depending if you want to argue that "recording signs" is a level 1 infraction and deemed a violation by the NCAA.

All in all there's no physical way for this to reach the scope of Tennessee and you're suggesting the punishment will be more severe.

It's not a criminal case so a preponderance of evidence is enough for sanctions they don't have to prove beyond doubt. I wouldn't confuse those concepts.

 

[Red_Alert]

Right, so you just confirmed you can't read. Which, I knew.

But like I said, what you're suggesting will happen to Michigan didn't even happen in a case where Tennessee violated level 1 rules 200 times. Their major punishment was an asterisk, minor scholarship reductions and a laughable $8 million fine. And I'll repeat 200 level 1 violations.

If it's deemed Michigan broke these rules, the punishments won't even be in the ballpark of what you're suggesting. Hell, they might even be satisfied by the firing of the staffer. We don't even know if these rules would fall in level 1 or level 2 violations. Nor do we know how much evidence they'll be able to collect to conclude when and where the violations happened.

At worst, Michigan gets slapped with a some level 1 violations, the staffer is fired, maybe some scholarship reductions (at most) and that's about it. probation? That's what I see the ceiling for this is. Any morons hoping for vacated wins are doing nothing but that, hoping because of their biases against Michigan....not because it's a legitimate conclusion based on the accused crime.

"You can't read" and then proceeds to say something showing he didn't read.

It was only 18 level 1 violations

Derp

Hundreds of violations occurred in Tennessee football program over 3 seasons - NCAA.org

Over the course of three seasons, the Tennessee football program committed 18 Level I violations — encompassing more than 200 individual infractions — most of which

www.ncaa.org

"Over the course of three seasons, the Tennessee football program committed 18 Level I violations — encompassing more than 200 individual infractions"

200 infractions. Only 18 Level 1 infractions.

maze&blew has a major reading and comprehension problem. Hence the 60 pages of mental gymnastics, spin, and denial.

As I said, people are constantly correcting his false statements with black and white proof. He soon goes right back to the false statements as if he were never corrected. LOL

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

"Over the course of three seasons, the Tennessee football program committed 18 Level I violations — encompassing more than 200 individual infractions"

200 infractions. Only 18 Level 1 infractions.

maze&blew has a major reading and comprehension problem. Hence the 60 pages of mental gymnastics, spin, and denial.

I'm going to need to look into clarifying this more. Because then it goes on to say:

In total, the scheme involved 29 prospects, 39 members of those prospects' families, 10 then-enrolled student-athletes, three family members of then-enrolled student-athletes, nine individuals associated with a prospect (e.g., a high school coach or nonscholastic coach), and three boosters. The scheme also involved at least a dozen members of the football staff, and the resulting violations included at least 110 impermissible hotel room nights, 180 impermissible meals, 72 instances of providing impermissible entertainment or other benefits, 41 impermissible recruiting contacts, 37 instances of providing impermissible game day parking, and 14 times in which gear was impermissibly provided to prospects.

If you add up the detailed violations, that 454 violations...

All of that to say, what Tenssessee did was massive in scale to what Michigan is accused of, spanning hundreds of violations, directly linked to the head coach at those violations and didn't receive the punishment you're suggesting is possible for Michigan.

 

[Red_Alert]

He quoted your post that said Tenn committed over 200 infractions, 18 of them level 1 and said "see 200 level 1 violations"

I call him out on it and he quotes a sentence again saying 200 violations 18 of them Level 1 as if he got me.

I don't know how to win an argument with that

It's the rationalization of a desperate homer.

 

[Red_Alert]

No, there wasn't. There have been 31 tickets purchased. And of those, you'd need to prove how many had people recording at them or video footage used. And of those, we don't even know if they would be categorized as level 1 infractions. And they'd all be grouped under only 1-2 level 1 infractions (depending if you want to argue that "recording signs" is a level 1 infraction and deemed a violation by the NCAA.

All in all there's no physical way for this to reach the scope of Tennessee and you're suggesting the punishment will be more severe.

I am.

Watch and Learn

 

[Across The Field]

"I'd really like to see the NCAA bylaw that says 'A head coach cannot have players in Columbus, OH specifically trade their own personal property that was acquired through winning a game on the last Saturday of November for discounted or free tattoos and then tell the NCAA they didn't know players were getting discounted or free tattoos in exchange for their own personal property'" - MnB if he was an Ohio State fan back in 2011.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I am.

Watch and Learn

They won't. Again, we don't even know if the NCAA would categorize this as level 1, if they even consider this a violation.

Like I said, the most likely scenario is Michigan fires the kid and the NCAA modifies the rules.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

"I'd really like to see the NCAA bylaw that says 'A head coach cannot have players in Columbus, OH specifically trade their own personal property that was acquired through winning a game on the last Saturday of November for discounted or free tattoos and then tell the NCAA they didn't know players were getting discounted or free tattoos in exchange for their own personal property'" - MnB if he was an Ohio State fan back in 2011.

Pretty easy actually. That rule existed.

What doesn't exist is rules governing what private individuals do and record at football games, and who they volunteer that information to.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I don't have a dog in the race, so here is my take. Not that anyone cares.

At this point, there is at least some evidence to back up each of the key allegations in this case. And so far, all we have is what has been released publically--there is no doubt more evidence that's been given to the NCAA. From the evidence so far, it's rather apparent that a low-level Michigan employee or his agents attended the games of future opponents and video recorded the opposing sideline--thereby apparently breaking NCAA rules against advance scouting and recording signs. This same guy was then seen on the Michigan sidelines during games, speaking with the team's coordinators. Imo, there isn't really any other plausible explanation for the actions taken.

I think the only question is what kind of punishment the NCAA will hand out. Knowing the NCAA and its usual lack of guts, it'll end up being some tap on the wrist.

 

[Across The Field]

Pretty easy actually. That rule existed.

What doesn't exist is rules governing what private individuals do and record at football games, and who they volunteer that information to.

I've never seen a single NCAA bylaw that mentions tattoos, discounted or free. Show it to me.

 

[Red_Alert]

I read that to mean that they violated 18 different level 1 rules on 200 occasions. Is that wrong? Maybe it is. So is it 18 level 1 violations and 182 level 2? I'm not sure it really matters though to the point. A massive amount of rules violations. No where in the scope of what we're talking about here.

What Michigan did is quite possibly worse.

It separately impacted multiple individual games in their own way. Each incidence is likely to be viewed as it's own infraction.

 

[fishinabarrel]

I don't have a dog in the race, so here is my take. Not that anyone cares.

At this point, there is at least some evidence to back up each of the key allegations in this case. And so far, all we have is what has been released publically--there is no doubt more evidence that's been given to the NCAA. From the evidence so far, it's rather apparent that a low-level Michigan employee or his agents attended the games of future opponents and video recorded the opposing sideline--thereby apparently breaking NCAA rules against advance scouting and recording signs. This same guy was then seen on the Michigan sidelines during games, speaking with the team's coordinators. Imo, there isn't really any other plausible explanation for the actions taken.

I think the only question is what kind of punishment the NCAA will hand out. Knowing the NCAA and its usual lack of guts, it'll end up being some tap on the wrist.

Yeah, everything has been gathered that we've seen has been in such a short period of time. The guy was not good at covering his tracks. All this stuff was just out there on the Internet

Ncaa has his personal computer and are probably getting all kinds of stuff sent to them from various teams.

 

[Across The Field]

I don't have a dog in the race, so here is my take. Not that anyone cares.

At this point, there is at least some evidence to back up each of the key allegations in this case. And so far, all we have is what has been released publically--there is no doubt more evidence that's been given to the NCAA. From the evidence so far, it's rather apparent that a low-level Michigan employee or his agents attended the games of future opponents and video recorded the opposing sideline--thereby apparently breaking NCAA rules against advance scouting and recording signs. This same guy was then seen on the Michigan sidelines during games, speaking with the team's coordinators. Imo, there isn't really any other plausible explanation for the actions taken.

I think the only question is what kind of punishment the NCAA will hand out. Knowing the NCAA and its usual lack of guts, it'll end up being some tap on the wrist.

That's the thing michigan has on their side. It's clear as a bell this guy is violating rules and the team took advantage of his actions. That said, the NCAA is both unfathomably incompetent and wildly inconsistent. They could find clear cut evidence, and slap michigan with vacated wins and a postseason ban. They could also have the keystone cops on the case like the ones that worked the Cam Newton case and end up letting michigan fire Stalions and maybe Harbaugh sits out a practice or something.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Yeah, everything has been gathered that we've seen has been in such a short period of time. The guy was not good at covering his tracks. All this stuff was just out there on the Internet

Ncaa has his personal computer and are probably getting all kinds of stuff sent to them from various teams.

Yea not only are the NCAA and B1G on this but now a ton of internet goons who are good at digging shit up, that's not good here for them considering this guys lack of effort to cover his tracks at all.

 

[Shanemansj13]

GOLD STANDARD FOR HARBAUGH AT MICHIGAN

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I've never seen a single NCAA bylaw that mentions tattoos, discounted or free. Show it to me.

A little bit hard to dig up now defunct NCAA rules. The only quote I can find is this:

"players may not sell their team-issued equipment or apparel until their college eligibility has expired"