More Michigan Cheating

[stakesarehigh]

You see. That’s reversed. Lots of teams what it to be true because it allows them to cope with prior losses and gives them (specifically Ohio state) and easier path moving forward. Which is why any leaked allegation is believed with certainty without any facts being presented. As a reminder, Michigan has not been accused of breaking any rules by the ncaa.

I've never seen someone get more mileage off two games in my life. I was all for some gloating after but Jesus dude you're completely ridiculous with this shit.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I've never seen someone get more mileage off two games in my life. I was all for some gloating after but Jesus dude you're completely ridiculous with this shit.

Maybe you aren't, I think some certainly are. And there's some involved that (in spite of their other successes) are somewhat on the hot seat because of those two games. These allegations, when viewed through the bias of the teams leaking them, should be taken with a grain of salt; especially because Michigan isn't even allowed to respond. So you have coaches and ADs making public statements, while Michigan can't say a thing.

 

[huskers1217]

Purdue coach: Know Michigan was at our games

Purdue coach Ryan Walters said his staff has had to teach players new signals and that the team will operate differently when it visits Michigan on Saturday due to evidence of scouting by the Wolverines.

www.espn.com

 

[stakesarehigh]

Maybe you aren't, I think some certainly are. And there's some involved that (in spite of their other successes) are somewhat on the hot seat because of those two games. These allegations, when viewed through the bias of the teams leaking them, should be taken with a grain of salt; especially because Michigan isn't even allowed to respond. So you have coaches and ADs making public statements, while Michigan can't say a thing.

Day is not on any hot seat other than with myopic Buckeye fans

 

[ralphiewvu]

I'm moving on from the screen grab semantics. 1 second, or 2 seconds, it's irrelevant. It happens for a moment in time because it's a reflection.

Because you are wrong on that Maize. You know you were wrong, everyone else knows you're wrong. It happens to everyone here, I've been wrong on this site a ton. Just own it and move on.

Spartan Stadium actually has two offset scoreboards on one end.

Which would perfectly line up with the way he's looking.

So it's pretty obvious the dude was looking at the other sideline. You want to try and argue huge scoreboards on both end zones are going to leave a tiny blue "reflection" on just one side of the frame? mmmmmmmk

 

[stakesarehigh]

Purdue coach: Know Michigan was at our games

Purdue coach Ryan Walters said his staff has had to teach players new signals and that the team will operate differently when it visits Michigan on Saturday due to evidence of scouting by the Wolverines.

www.espn.com

it's fucked that Purdue has to completely change their approach because of this. It's a massive advantage to Michigan.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Purdue coach: Know Michigan was at our games

Purdue coach Ryan Walters said his staff has had to teach players new signals and that the team will operate differently when it visits Michigan on Saturday due to evidence of scouting by the Wolverines.

www.espn.com

Again, knowing a 3rd party was at their games is not necessarily an NCAA violation (discussed in length here). So they can be upset that maybe Michigan found a grey area, but until the NCAA rules on this there's absolutely no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Because you are wrong on that Maize. You know you were wrong, everyone else knows you're wrong. It happens to everyone here, I've been wrong on this site a ton. Just own it and move on.

So it's pretty obvious the dude was looking at the other sideline. You want to try and argue huge scoreboards on both end zones are going to leave a tiny blue "reflection" on just one side of the frame? mmmmmmmk

He's absolutely looking at the other sideline, which means that's absolutely the reflection of the corner scoreboard to the right of where he's looking....

Michigan is losing the public perception here because they can't say anything about it. Which is messed up. B10 coaches and AD's actively commenting on, and leaking information, while an NCAA investigation is insane.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

it's fucked that Purdue has to completely change their approach because of this. It's a massive advantage to Michigan.

lol, no it isn't. You're telling me that teams both simultaneously knew Michigan was doing this for 3 years but also had absolutely no preparations for teams knowing signs (beyond just Michigan because sign stealing is, again, legal)? This is pandering to the media perspective.

 

[stakesarehigh]

lol, no it isn't. You're telling me that teams both simultaneously knew Michigan was doing this for 3 years but also had absolutely no preparations for teams knowing signs (beyond just Michigan because sign stealing is, again, legal)? This is pandering to the media perspective.

Yes it is. They have to huddle when they haven't huddled all year? They have to completely change up signals and alter their game plan entirely as opposed to the usual prep?

This is a substantial disruption to the usual prep and the reason TCU was so effective with it is because they had a month to prepare.

90 plus percent of football coaches (regardless of role) feel this way. you continuously pretending otherwise makes you look ridiculous.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Yes it is. They have to huddle when they haven't huddled all year? They have to completely change up signals and alter their game plan entirely as opposed to the usual prep?

This is a substantial disruption to the usual prep and the reason TCU was so effective with it is because they had a month to prepare.

90 plus percent of football coaches (regardless of role) feel this way. you continuously pretending otherwise makes you look ridiculous.

They don't have to huddle. That's their choice. They've also had very literally 3 weeks.

As discussed, this is nonsense:

This is a substantial disruption to the usual prep and the reason TCU was so effective with it is because they had a month to prepare.

TCU won because we spotted them 14 points through a pick 6. Not because they changed their signs. Our offense was still perfectly capable, and where they beat us was in just athletic WR play. It wasn't schematically.

The coaches survey is nonsense. It doesn't say where the teams were surveyed, outside a couple negative examples, and only suggests if ALL allegations are true (which they almost certainly aren't).

 

[stakesarehigh]

They don't have to huddle. That's their choice. They've also had very literally 3 weeks.

As discussed, this is nonsense:


TCU won because we spotted them 14 points through a pick 6. Not because they changed their signs. Our offense was still perfectly capable, and where they beat us was in just athletic WR play. It wasn't schematically.

And as I said 90 plus percent of coaches disagree.

 

[Across The Field]

Yes it is. They have to huddle when they haven't huddled all year? They have to completely change up signals and alter their game plan entirely as opposed to the usual prep?

This is a substantial disruption to the usual prep and the reason TCU was so effective with it is because they had a month to prepare.

90 plus percent of football coaches (regardless of role) feel this way. you continuously pretending otherwise makes you look ridiculous.

Yeah sure, illegally stealing all those signs had no impact on the game whatsoever.

It's hilarious that guys like MnB are caught between these two opposite positions of "it didn't give them an advantage" to "well it sounds like michigan just exposed a loophole to gain an advantage". At any rate, all it boils down to is that they couldn't get the job done on the field by just lining up and going at it. They had to do things no other team was in order to gain advantages no other team had to be able to finally win. What a pathetic program.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

And as I said 90 plus percent of coaches disagree.

The coaches survey is nonsense. It doesn't say where the teams were surveyed, outside a couple negative examples, and only suggests if ALL allegations are true (which they almost certainly aren't). We can agree that if Stallions did something illegal Michigan should be punished, which is essentially what that survey says. I don't disagree. But I suspect we'll dramatically disagree on what that punishment is (and I'd assume the same is true of that majority surveyed as well).

 

[Across The Field]

They don't have to huddle. That's their choice. They've also had very literally 3 weeks.

As discussed, this is nonsense:


TCU won because we spotted them 14 points through a pick 6. Not because they changed their signs. Our offense was still perfectly capable, and where they beat us was in just athletic WR play. It wasn't schematically.

The coaches survey is nonsense. It doesn't say where the teams were surveyed, outside a couple negative examples, and only suggests if ALL allegations are true (which they almost certainly aren't).

@NewPhoneWhoDis LOL and you try and say I make excuses, good god

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Yeah sure, illegally stealing all those signs had no impact on the game whatsoever.

It's hilarious that guys like MnB are caught between these two opposite positions of "it didn't give them an advantage" to "well it sounds like michigan just exposed a loophole to gain an advantage". At any rate, all it boils down to is that they couldn't get the job done on the field by just lining up and going at it. They had to do things no other team was in order to gain advantages no other team had to be able to finally win. What a pathetic program.

Sign stealing is legal. You're also assuming what he's saying here, based on bad lip reading. If Stallions wasn't cheating, this is what the video would look like. If stallions was cheating, this is what the video would look like. What does that mean? This video isn't evidence of shit.

There are far too many unknowns to really know anything here. We don't know if sending 3rd parties to games to record violates the letter of the NCAA bylaw. And by NCAA bylaw, anything that isn't specifically banned is therefor legal. If it's not legal, how much of an advantage does this give over already existing sign stealing? We can't know any of that and it's going to be up to the NCAA to determine.

Example: If teams are able to steal 90% of signs and this let MIchigan steal 92% of signs, that's not a significant advantage.

What you (and others) seem to be falsely operating with is that no signs, and no formations, would be known without "cheating"...which is absurd. That's literally the entire point of scouting, and Michigan could have used OSU's formation to determine your bad lip reading of "run right"

 

[ellupo]

They don't have to huddle. That's their choice. They've also had very literally 3 weeks.

As discussed, this is nonsense:


TCU won because we spotted them 14 points through a pick 6. Not because they changed their signs. Our offense was still perfectly capable, and where they beat us was in just athletic WR play. It wasn't schematically.

The coaches survey is nonsense. It doesn't say where the teams were surveyed, outside a couple negative examples, and only suggests if ALL allegations are true (which they almost certainly aren't).

They have to huddle to attempt to negate the cheating. That negates the ability for a hurry up offense. The cheating takes away a teams ability to play their game play.

TCU should have never been anywhere in that game but without having their signs it slowed the MI team down.

The B1G coaches sure think it is an advantage just like the ADs.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

@NewPhoneWhoDis LOL and you try and say I make excuses, good god

Let me clarify. TCU won the game. I'm not making an excuse. We got beat. What didn't happen is that TCU didn't beat us because they changed their signs. Which is the false narrative being used here.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

They have to huddle to attempt to negate the cheating. That negates the ability for a hurry up offense. The cheating takes away a teams ability to play their game play.

TCU should have never been anywhere in that game but without having their signs it slowed the MI team down.

The B1G coaches sure think it is an advantage just like the ADs.

No they don't. And sign stealing is legal. If they believe Michigan got their signs, like they could have through legal means, they are free to change them and most teams have a process in place to quickly alter them. Or use a fucking wrist band. They're $20 on amazon.


B10 coaches, especially the most outspoken, have a clear reason (both competitively and financially) to try and harm Michigan here. If Michigan gets blocked from the B10 title game, for instance, OSU and Ryan day are basically locked into financial incentives worth millions collectively. Of course they're going to lean into this.

 

[Across The Field]

Sign stealing is legal. You're also assuming what he's saying here, based on bad lip reading. If Stallions wasn't cheating, this is what the video would look like. If stallions was cheating, this is what the video would look like. What does that mean? This video isn't evidence of shit.

There are far too many unknowns to really know anything here. We don't know if sending 3rd parties to games to record violates the letter of the NCAA bylaw. And by NCAA bylaw, anything that isn't specifically banned is therefor legal. If it's not legal, how much of an advantage does this give over already existing sign stealing? We can't know any of that and it's going to be up to the NCAA to determine.

Example: If teams are able to steal 90% of signs and this let MIchigan steal 92% of signs, that's not a significant advantage.

What you (and others) seem to be falsely operating with is that no signs, and no formations, would be known without "cheating"...which is absurd. That's literally the entire point of scouting, and Michigan could have used OSU's formation to determine your bad lip reading of "run right"

Sign stealing is legal. What michigan did isn't. Also You've gotta be kidding me with that 90%/92% bullshit. No chance teams are able to steal 90% of signs, not even remotely close. Now, if they did what michigan could, sure. Otherwise, absolutely 0 shot.

Again, it doesn't change the fact that michigan had to do what they did in order to win. If not, they wouldn't have done it, and it clearly gave them a competitive advantage. They couldn't win on an equal playing field. Nobody else was doing what they did because it destroys the integrity of the game (especially if the stolen OSU practice footage rumor ends up being true).