New SEC Alignment

Wild Turkey said:
Here is where the tiers are:

Tier 1 - Had to have won a natty in the last 20 years:

Alabama
LSU
Auburn
Florida
Texas
Oklahoma

Tier 2 - Won a natty at least in the last 30 years:

Tennessee
(We’ll also note GT as a footnote)

Tier 3 - Won a natty in the last 40 years

Georgia (although after this year you’ll fall out to tier 4
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LOL ... being a rational person, I am okay with this. You defined tiers based on when the last NC was won. In that set of Tiers, we are Tier 3 for sure.

See, that's how a mature, emotionally stable person handles things.

But, you know that no one else on this board thinks for a minute that is what the Tiers are in the SEC today, which is what we were talking about.. But, hey, you defined it and that most certainly is the SEC Last Natty Tiers. If that warms you as you are losing to Georgia State, and UGA, then you be you.

13-3.
 
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WhosYourDawggy said:
Nah, we are top tier. Not beating one team isn't what Top Tier means.

You will note that your team is the only one that I commented on. I had you top tier for the reasons you mention, and I had a asterisk by your name as being one of the Big 8 that will drive the TV money in 2 years. I have no objection to someone saying you should be in the top tier. The reason I had you in the top of the next tier down is because, as I noted, you guys are natty or bust.

In the 11 years you reference, you have a 14-0 with a NC due to a generational player 11 years ago, then a 12-2 8 years ago. In the other 9 years you have lost 48 games, or a little over 5 losses per year. You lost 9 games 2 years after the natty, and the year before you played for it again. Sorry, but that isn't top tier to me.

You aren't UTjr, and I put you in the Big 8 of the SEC - AU, UA, UGA, LSU, UF, TAMU, UT, and OU. But your inconsistency doesn't compare with the other teams I have in the Top Tier.
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From a conference perspective, the SEC doesn't look at last 10-15 years but all-time potential. Sure, Tennessee has struggled (along with Texas who is on the list) but both would be seen as top 10 all-time programs by the SEC and would be treated as tier 1.

Take the 2015 and 2016 teams. They were loaded with talent which shows that:

1. Tennessee still can recruit
2. Tennessee is still a brand name
3. Tennessee can still win at a high level

Take Butch Jones and put even average coaches like Gus Malzahn or Sam Pittman at the helm and those Tennessee teams likely win the East and make playoffs.

Georgia got lucky with Kirby Smart. Say they had hired Pruitt, you guys would be in the same boat as Tennessee right now.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
LOL ... being a rational person, I am okay with this. You defined tiers based on when the last NC was won. In that set of Tiers, we are Tier 3 for sure.

See, that's how a mature, emotionally stable person handles things.

But, you know that no one else on this board thinks for a minute that is what the Tiers are in the SEC today, which is what we were talking about.. But, hey, you defined it and that most certainly is the SEC Last Natty Tiers. If that warms you as you are losing to Georgia State, and UGA, then you be you.

13-3.
Click to expand...

Auburn would be seen as a top tier team just like Tennessee. Both have had significant historical success, have large athletic departments/resources, and can recruit top talent with the RIGHT coach.

247sports.com

Ranking college football's 25 best programs of all time

...
247sports.com 247sports.com

Most polls have Tennessee still in top 10 and Auburn in top 15 all-time.
 
Volbound1700 said:
From a conference perspective, the SEC doesn't look at last 10-15 years but all-time potential. Sure, Tennessee has struggled (along with Texas who is on the list) but both would be seen as top 10 all-time programs by the SEC and would be treated as tier 1.

Take the 2015 and 2016 teams. They were loaded with talent which shows that:

1. Tennessee still can recruit
2. Tennessee is still a brand name
3. Tennessee can still win at a high level

Take Butch Jones and put even average coaches like Gus Malzahn or Sam Pittman at the helm and those Tennessee teams likely win the East and make playoffs.

Georgia got lucky with Kirby Smart. Say they had hired Pruitt, you guys would be in the same boat as Tennessee right now.
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Dude you are in love with Malzahn for some reason but go ask the UCF fans what they think of him.

Just ponder the fact that Terry Bowden and Gene Chizik had an undefeated season at Auburn and you will start seeing that a lot of times Auburn wins despite coaching.
 
I am just glad that the leaders in the SEC are not short-sighted like people in this thread.

The top 6, historical, programs in the SEC are Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee. Not winning a National Title since 1980 or being bad the last decade won't drop you out of that list.

Oklahoma and Texas clearly fit in this top 6 category and it will go to a top 8.

The next tier will definitely include Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M since they are top 25 all-time CFB programs.

The final tier will be programs outside of the top 30 all-time which are Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State, South Carolina, and Vanderbilt.

Another thing to note is that there will NOT be a schedule out there with a team having annual opponents that are composed of only the top 8 teams. I just don't see it happening. That team will pitch a fit.
 
Interestingly, when you listen to most interviews about the SEC power brokers, the media comments tend to cite to three schools every time:

Alabama, Florida, and Kentucky. Kentucky sounds like an odd one but apparently they have a big VOICE in the SEC despite their weak Football program. Granted, some of this has to do with how respected the AD is among their peers but I find it interesting that UK tends to come up a lot in comments as a major decision maker in the SEC.

Then again, I think UK is to Basketball what UT-Austin is to football in that I believe UK is the most profitable Men's BBall program.
 
Thiefery said:
well at least there's less than 8 right?
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Yeah, and they don't have any with alumni bases as small as TCU and Baylor. (Maybe Vandy...not familiar with their enrollments)

While most SEC members are large state universities, they still don't move the "must see" needle outside their own footprint any more than a Texas Tech, Oklahoma State or Iowa State do. Who outside SEC country is sitting on pins and needles waiting for the South Carolina vs Miss State game to come on the SEC network? About the same number as Iowa State vs Kansas State crowd. I just don't see either of those games drawing more eyeballs than the other from folks in Eastern Washington or Upstate New York.

Now throw in Bama vs either South Carolina or Miss State and it will draw more interest in those other areas. That's the type games where UT and OU will help a lot. TV revenue will soar.
 
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Thiefery said:
well at least there's less than 8 right?
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I would be curious to do a factual review on the value of the SEC programs.

I will say this right away. There is one SEC program that definitely sticks out as a sore thumb as a most definite welfare school. In fact, they might be worse than any of the orphan 8 programs. That is Vanderbilt. Vandy just sticks out as a sore thumb of a school that does NOT belong in the SEC.

After that, it gets a little more tricky. The other candidates are the following and I am going to cite reasons why they MAY not be welfare schools

1. Missouri - Brings new TV market, has a decent size fanbase despite lack of success
2. South Carolina - Very similar to Missouri. I think the program generates money and they do have a large fanbase
3. Mississippi State - My argument for welfare school #2. I think they are about on par with Oklahoma State or Iowa State. Still, they do fill their stadium and see some success on the field
4. Kentucky - The SEC's version of Kansas. However, I think UK is the MOST PROFITABLE Men's BBall program so their basketball program is even more prestigious and a bigger money generator than Kansas. UK also has a 50k football stadium that they fill to capacity most of the time. I don't think they are a drain on the league at all based on feedback.

So in reality, the only school I see as a true welfare school is Vandy. Mississippi State is in the maybe category. The other schools tend to bring something to the table.
 
Deep Creek said:
Yeah, and they don't have any with alumni bases as small as TCU and Baylor. (Maybe Vandy...not familiar with their enrollments)

While most SEC members are large state universities, they still don't move the "must see" needle outside their own footprint any more than a Texas Tech, Oklahoma State or Iowa State do. Who outside SEC country is sitting on pins and needles waiting for the South Carolina vs Miss State game to come on? About the same number as Iowa State vs Kansas State crowd.
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I can see your point. Miss State and South Carolina have a decent fanbase and interest. They draw interest when they are good (Dan Mullen era at Miss State or Steve Spurrier era at South Carolina). However, you could say the same thing about Iowa State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech.

I do think those three Big12 teams would have had a shot at one of the Power 5 leagues if they were in a more lucrative TV Market. Another Big12 school that was somewhat competitive and has an alright size fanbase was Kansas State. I do have some respect for that program.

I felt like Baylor was always an odd pick for the original Big12. Seems like TCU would have been a better prick (especially since TCU actually had a National Title in Football). Any background on why Baylor was selected over TCU for the Big12?
 
www.forbes.com

College Football’s Most Valuable Teams: Reigning Champion Clemson Tigers Claw Into Top 25

Clemson’s on-field dominance has been paying off—the No. 1 team in the country now generates nearly $80 million per year in revenue, ranking the Tigers among the sport’s most valuable teams for the first time.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Pull facts, here is how the SEC stacks up in top 25 valuable programs based on Forbes (I can also cite WSJ but it isn't that much difference. Two Texas schools are typically 1-2):

1. Texas A&m
4. Alabama
7. Georgia
9. Florida
10. Auburn
11. LSU
12. Tennessee
16. South Carolina (tie)
16. Arkansas (tie)
24. Mississippi

So out of the current 14-team SEC, you have 10 teams in the top 25 money generation. Report was from September 2019. The current Big12 only has Texas at #2 and Oklahoma at #6 on that list.
 
Volbound1700 said:
I can see your point. Miss State and South Carolina have a decent fanbase and interest. They draw interest when they are good (Dan Mullen era at Miss State or Steve Spurrier era at South Carolina). However, you could say the same thing about Iowa State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech.

I do think those three Big12 teams would have had a shot at one of the Power 5 leagues if they were in a more lucrative TV Market. Another Big12 school that was somewhat competitive and has an alright size fanbase was Kansas State. I do have some respect for that program.

I felt like Baylor was always an odd pick for the original Big12. Seems like TCU would have been a better prick (especially since TCU actually had a National Title in Football). Any background on why Baylor was selected over TCU for the Big12?
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I think you missed it. I agree Miss State and South Carolina have decent fanbases and interest IN SEC COUNTRY. They don't have that level of INTEREST OUSIDE of SEC COUNTRY. Bama, Florida, etal draw interest OUTSIDE the SEC footprint. That was my point.

Ann Richards was governor at the time and saw to it that Baylor was included with Texas, A&M and Texas Tech.
 
Deep Creek said:
I think you missed it. I agree Miss State and South Carolina have decent fanbases and interest IN SEC COUNTRY. They don't have that level of INTEREST OUSIDE of SEC COUNTRY. Bama, Florida, etal draw interest OUTSIDE the SEC footprint. That was my point.

Ann Richards was governor at the time and saw to it that Baylor was included with Texas, A&M and Texas Tech.
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Actually, I agreed with that point. They are on par with Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc. All of these programs do get eyeballs when they are good but no one pays attention to them outside of SEC Country/Big12 Country.

I will say this, though, South Carolina is in the top 25 revenue generating programs in nearly every poll you look at (top 20) while the Big12 minus OU and Texas do not make an appearance.
 
Volbound1700 said:
www.forbes.com

College Football’s Most Valuable Teams: Reigning Champion Clemson Tigers Claw Into Top 25

Clemson’s on-field dominance has been paying off—the No. 1 team in the country now generates nearly $80 million per year in revenue, ranking the Tigers among the sport’s most valuable teams for the first time.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Pull facts, here is how the SEC stacks up in top 25 valuable programs based on Forbes (I can also cite WSJ but it isn't that much difference. Two Texas schools are typically 1-2):

1. Texas A&m
4. Alabama
7. Georgia
9. Florida
10. Auburn
11. LSU
12. Tennessee
16. South Carolina (tie)
16. Arkansas (tie)
24. Mississippi

So out of the current 14-team SEC, you have 10 teams in the top 25 money generation. Report was from September 2019. The current Big12 only has Texas at #2 and Oklahoma at #6 on that list.
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Yeah, but networks don't give a shit how much money is generated through ticket sales, alumni donations, t-shirt sales, etc. They only care about how many viewers they can attract.
 
Deep Creek said:
Yeah, but networks don't give a shit how much money is generated through ticket sales, alumni donations, t-shirt sales, etc. They only care about how many viewers they can attract.
Click to expand...

Agree but when it comes to value of programs and conference realignment, all of those items are taken into account.

Also, let's be honest, no one watches even the big-name programs when they are bad other than the fanbase. I imagine schools like FSU, Miami, Nebraska, Tennessee, and USC are probably not getting much national viewership at the moment. While Iowa will probably get a lot of viewership due to their ranking.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Actually, I agreed with that point. They are on par with Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc. All of these programs do get eyeballs when they are good but no one pays attention to them outside of SEC Country/Big12 Country.

I will say this, though, South Carolina is in the top 25 revenue generating programs in nearly every poll you look at (top 20) while the Big12 minus OU and Texas do not make an appearance.
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That may be true. But that guy sitting on the couch in Collville, WA checking out which games to watch doesn't really give a shit how much revenue the Gamecock AD generated. UNLESS, he is a transplanted South Carolinian or a Gamecock alumni, their game vs Miss State won't draw his attention. But, I will agree that he MIGHT want to watch it if both teams are highly ranked OR either one of them is playing Bama. Only college football nuts like the two of us will watch any shit show game!
 
Volbound1700 said:
Interestingly, when you listen to most interviews about the SEC power brokers, the media comments tend to cite to three schools every time:

Alabama, Florida, and Kentucky. Kentucky sounds like an odd one but apparently they have a big VOICE in the SEC despite their weak Football program. Granted, some of this has to do with how respected the AD is among their peers but I find it interesting that UK tends to come up a lot in comments as a major decision maker in the SEC.

Then again, I think UK is to Basketball what UT-Austin is to football in that I believe UK is the most profitable Men's BBall program.
Click to expand...
Dude there aren’t any power brokers in reality within the SEC. Everyone has an equal vote and a perfect example is the other schools making Auburn and Alabama move their game to the week before the SEC Championship instead of using that week as a bye. The vote was 12-2 and Bama and Auburn had to move and that’s why for the last 5 years both have played cupcakes the week before they played as the league screwed both our schedules.

It didn’t matter that the other schools could arrange their schedules the same all that mattered is they didn’t want us doing it.

Clout is grossly over rated in the SEC and Texas is going to be frustrated as hell when Ole Miss and Miss State get a say in what they do. It will be fun.
 
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