NIL info

Really need to just turn this over to the schools and set it up with minimums for all players across all sports. It's a job done for the school that makes the school money... treat it as such and pay the participants.
Probably 99% of NCAA varsity sports do not generate revenue. Outside of football and very few basketball/baseball teams, the rest of the varsity sports lose money and have to be privately funded. If you now want all of those kids to be paid, those sports will go away.
 
Probably 99% of NCAA varsity sports do not generate revenue. Outside of football and very few basketball/baseball teams, the rest of the varsity sports lose money and have to be privately funded. If you now want all of those kids to be paid, those sports will go away.
It's amazing to me how many people don't understand how all this works.

People are equating "profit" with gross revenue and that is not how it works at all. Sure many of these programs bring in a bunch of cash but they generate even more in expenses in most cases. If we are talking about true profit sharing then the only teams that have a prayer of generating a profit are football and men's basketball (and there are more teams in the red than black in that sport) and that is legitimately it.

People also are not taking into consideration that DONATIONS to a program are not earned revenue and donors allocate those gifts in most cases. The numbers outside of a P5 program are dismal most programs are happy to break even and the majority are subsidized by the university as a recruiting tool to get students.

Hell Cal, Arizona and some of the other former PAC schools are running deficits and UCLA had to go to the B1G to remain solvent.
 
Sure, but there is a difference. Once you have a CBA, the player now is at risk. If a player takes money under the table, they can be punished. Also, once the CBA is in place, the NCAA or whatever replaces it can actually do their job ... enforce the CBA. The problem has always been putting rules in place without the players being involved.
lol that's not going to stop it... if two schools are offering the "max" for a specific player.. shit will be dirty to get that signature
 
It's amazing to me how many people don't understand how all this works.

People are equating "profit" with gross revenue and that is not how it works at all. Sure many of these programs bring in a bunch of cash but they generate even more in expenses in most cases. If we are talking about true profit sharing then the only teams that have a prayer of generating a profit are football and men's basketball (and there are more teams in the red than black in that sport) and that is legitimately it.

People also are not taking into consideration that DONATIONS to a program are not earned revenue and donors allocate those gifts in most cases. The numbers outside of a P5 program are dismal most programs are happy to break even and the majority are subsidized by the university as a recruiting tool to get students.

Hell Cal, Arizona and some of the other former PAC schools are running deficits and UCLA had to go to the B1G to remain solvent.
i agree.. just because schools are getting the same cut in media revenue doesn't make schools equal. Schools rather let collectives take over and distance themselves from the university when it comes to the payout they receive from the conference

everyone is focused on football.. but there's many more sports tied to the school as well
 
lol that's not going to stop it... if two schools are offering the "max" for a specific player.. shit will be dirty to get that signature
Again, of course it will. But then it's up to the NCAA to have some teeth. It's up to the Players Association to not allow it. That's all a choice. It's not like labor agreements are something new. It's not like management trying to cheat is something new. For that matter employees trying to cheat. You sound like you want everyone to throw up their hands and say we can't do anything. Well, once they have a CBA in place they can do something, and I believe everyone will want them to do so.
 
It's amazing to me how many people don't understand how all this works.

People are equating "profit" with gross revenue and that is not how it works at all. Sure many of these programs bring in a bunch of cash but they generate even more in expenses in most cases. If we are talking about true profit sharing then the only teams that have a prayer of generating a profit are football and men's basketball (and there are more teams in the red than black in that sport) and that is legitimately it.

People also are not taking into consideration that DONATIONS to a program are not earned revenue and donors allocate those gifts in most cases. The numbers outside of a P5 program are dismal most programs are happy to break even and the majority are subsidized by the university as a recruiting tool to get students.

Hell Cal, Arizona and some of the other former PAC schools are running deficits and UCLA had to go to the B1G to remain solvent.
What I think you and the "they make no profit" people don't understand is that schools basically are designed to spend everything they get. They don't have to do that. They don't have to add the 69th assistant. They don't have to pay their HCs $10 million dollars. They can get rid of some admins. They can stop spending money on facilities on a grand scale. When they are required to pay the players, that expense will come first. Then all the other fluff won't get paid for. It's simply a matter of allocation.

Now, some schools in the G5 won't be able to because there aren't 69 assistants, their facilities aren't all that good, and the HC doesn't get 10 million. They will have an option to run their program under a different model. But the top 50-60 athletic departments can make it happen if they want to. Some easier than others, same as the Yankees v. the Royals.

I don't know if you have ever run a business, but I have for over 35 years. You are the one making this hard. Everyone that matters understands profit, gross revenue, expenses, etc. What you don't seem to understand is that when an expense you can't not pay gets added to your operation, you will find a way to pay for it. Hell, just this January I determined I needed to add a new employee. I added her and then looked around to see what I could cut to help pay for her while she gets up and running where she can generate revenue to cover her costs. Candidly, there is only so much cutting I can do on the expense side so I am going to take a pay cut for 6 months. Long term planning says this a good move. The schools will do the same thing.
 
What I think you and the "they make no profit" people don't understand is that schools basically are designed to spend everything they get. They don't have to do that. They don't have to add the 69th assistant. They don't have to pay their HCs $10 million dollars. They can get rid of some admins. They can stop spending money on facilities on a grand scale. When they are required to pay the players, that expense will come first. Then all the other fluff won't get paid for. It's simply a matter of allocation.

Now, some schools in the G5 won't be able to because there aren't 69 assistants, their facilities aren't all that good, and the HC doesn't get 10 million. They will have an option to run their program under a different model. But the top 50-60 athletic departments can make it happen if they want to. Some easier than others, same as the Yankees v. the Royals.

I don't know if you have ever run a business, but I have for over 35 years. You are the one making this hard. Everyone that matters understands profit, gross revenue, expenses, etc. What you don't seem to understand is that when an expense you can't not pay gets added to your operation, you will find a way to pay for it. Hell, just this January I determined I needed to add a new employee. I added her and then looked around to see what I could cut to help pay for her while she gets up and running where she can generate revenue to cover her costs. Candidly, there is only so much cutting I can do on the expense side so I am going to take a pay cut for 6 months. Long term planning says this a good move. The schools will do the same thing.
Schools are not privately owned businesses and do not function even remotely similarly. My wife has worked in higher ed on the financial side for 18 years. Again, what you're suggesting is not reality. They can't just "cut assistants", they can't just "get rid of some admins", and they definitely can't stop spending money on facilities. The major sports are the very, very clear breadwinners. If you fall behind regarding facilities or coaches (btw, coaches aren't all magically going to agree to just take pay cuts), the donations are going to slow way down, and the smaller sports will be the first to go. Unless NIL is folded in under the university and functions as the way to compensate players, you will see athletic departments at nearly every school shrink substantially.
 
Probably 99% of NCAA varsity sports do not generate revenue. Outside of football and very few basketball/baseball teams, the rest of the varsity sports lose money and have to be privately funded. If you now want all of those kids to be paid, those sports will go away.

if it was only about costing the university money, they'd already be gone. Pay the athletes that are dedicating insane amounts of time to their sport. Those kids can't get another job if they want to sleep ever. Football TV contracts make enough to pay for the rest of the sports.

Hell, include the bad even though they're all douches.
 
if it was only about costing the university money, they'd already be gone. Pay the athletes that are dedicating insane amounts of time to their sport. Those kids can't get another job if they want to sleep ever. Football TV contracts make enough to pay for the rest of the sports.

Hell, include the bad even though they're all douches.
It's tenable to have them right now, and I'm sorry but getting a free college education and other perks for being a synchronized swimmer is more than enough payment. If it's about paying football players, I get it, but NIL seems to be doing a very good job of it. The rest of the athletes have not earned that money whatsoever, and the university is already in debt just having them enrolled on scholarship. You think they're going to also pay all these kids that are already costing them money? Not a chance.
 
It's tenable to have them right now, and I'm sorry but getting a free college education and other perks for being a synchronized swimmer is more than enough payment. If it's about paying football players, I get it, but NIL seems to be doing a very good job of it. The rest of the athletes have not earned that money whatsoever, and the university is already in debt just having them enrolled on scholarship. You think they're going to also pay all these kids that are already costing them money? Not a chance.

not every member of those other sports is getting a free education.
 
not every member of those other sports is getting a free education.
You mean like club teams? If you're not a scholarship athlete, you're definitely not getting paid by the university so that's a moot point.
 
You mean like club teams? If you're not a scholarship athlete, you're definitely not getting paid by the university so that's a moot point.

what % of athletes on actual teams (not clubs) do you think are on scholarship?

I'm not saying everybody should be paid the same, but there should be some minimum.
 
What I think you and the "they make no profit" people don't understand is that schools basically are designed to spend everything they get. They don't have to do that. They don't have to add the 69th assistant. They don't have to pay their HCs $10 million dollars. They can get rid of some admins. They can stop spending money on facilities on a grand scale. When they are required to pay the players, that expense will come first. Then all the other fluff won't get paid for. It's simply a matter of allocation.

Now, some schools in the G5 won't be able to because there aren't 69 assistants, their facilities aren't all that good, and the HC doesn't get 10 million. They will have an option to run their program under a different model. But the top 50-60 athletic departments can make it happen if they want to. Some easier than others, same as the Yankees v. the Royals.

I don't know if you have ever run a business, but I have for over 35 years. You are the one making this hard. Everyone that matters understands profit, gross revenue, expenses, etc. What you don't seem to understand is that when an expense you can't not pay gets added to your operation, you will find a way to pay for it. Hell, just this January I determined I needed to add a new employee. I added her and then looked around to see what I could cut to help pay for her while she gets up and running where she can generate revenue to cover her costs. Candidly, there is only so much cutting I can do on the expense side so I am going to take a pay cut for 6 months. Long term planning says this a good move. The schools will do the same thing.
Just so we are on the same page I've been a CPA both in private and public accounting for over 30 years so there is absolutely nothing you can teach me about profit and loss.

What you need to understand is a substantial amount of the cash these programs bring in are considered donations which aren't revenue by definition and shouldn't be considered "profit". Pretty much every time a facility upgrade is made a sizable portion of that is from donations and the portion that is financed is paid off with donations solicited through "the greater funds" that everyone charges on top of tickets.

The other piece is you assume a lot of fluff is being spent and no doubt that is happening and can probably cut some payroll but not enough to cover the salaries of players and there are things you absolutely can't cut like plane use and 18-wheelers that haul the equipment. There is a reason that FSU and Clemson are chomping at the bit to get out of the ACC because they are at a huge disadvantage in regards to facilities, coaching salaries, and most importantly recruiting budgets. There is "fluff" they are spending that yes could be cut but there is always a cost and much of that will go to recruiting and player retention.

This is a much more complicated issue than just cost-cutting. I can promise you cut costing in any business can only move the needle so far on an income statement and if you want to truly grow your net revenue then you have to increase the top line. That is where EVERYONE is going to be looking if/when this goes through. Network deals are in place so you are going to see big increases in just about everything else to cover the new costs. They are pretty much going to have to solicit gifts to cover payroll or put huge premiums on ticket packages.

You start cutting salaries and the NFL is going to be flooded with resumes.
 
Schools are not privately owned businesses and do not function even remotely similarly. My wife has worked in higher ed on the financial side for 18 years. Again, what you're suggesting is not reality. They can't just "cut assistants", they can't just "get rid of some admins", and they definitely can't stop spending money on facilities. The major sports are the very, very clear breadwinners. If you fall behind regarding facilities or coaches (btw, coaches aren't all magically going to agree to just take pay cuts), the donations are going to slow way down, and the smaller sports will be the first to go. Unless NIL is folded in under the university and functions as the way to compensate players, you will see athletic departments at nearly every school shrink substantially.
Then it's good that the Athletic Department isn't the "schools." Athletic departments are run exactly like a business because it's a business. They can totally not hire as many assistant coaches, as much recruiting staff, not pay the HC $10 million, etc. If that affects recruiting, etc., tough. Everyone is going to have to pay the labor now so everyone will be facing the same challenges.

FWIW, "schools" can do the same thing. Instead of continually raising tuition, they would be better off with fewer administrators. They don't have to have all the fabulous dorms, climbing walls, etc. This is a choice they make, and they could make other choices. They choose not to.

There is nothing special about "schools" or athletic departments that keep them from having to work within basic business concepts.
 
Just so we are on the same page I've been a CPA both in private and public accounting for over 30 years so there is absolutely nothing you can teach me about profit and loss.

What you need to understand is a substantial amount of the cash these programs bring in are considered donations which aren't revenue by definition and shouldn't be considered "profit". Pretty much every time a facility upgrade is made a sizable portion of that is from donations and the portion that is financed is paid off with donations solicited through "the greater funds" that everyone charges on top of tickets.

The other piece is you assume a lot of fluff is being spent and no doubt that is happening and can probably cut some payroll but not enough to cover the salaries of players and there are things you absolutely can't cut like plane use and 18-wheelers that haul the equipment. There is a reason that FSU and Clemson are chomping at the bit to get out of the ACC because they are at a huge disadvantage in regards to facilities, coaching salaries, and most importantly recruiting budgets. There is "fluff" they are spending that yes could be cut but there is always a cost and much of that will go to recruiting and player retention.

This is a much more complicated issue than just cost-cutting. I can promise you cut costing in any business can only move the needle so far on an income statement and if you want to truly grow your net revenue then you have to increase the top line. That is where EVERYONE is going to be looking if/when this goes through. Network deals are in place so you are going to see big increases in just about everything else to cover the new costs. They are pretty much going to have to solicit gifts to cover payroll or put huge premiums on ticket packages.

You start cutting salaries and the NFL is going to be flooded with resumes.
When you have been running an enterprise that has been and is going to be found to be illegal, you have to make tough choices. The one choice that won't be tough is that they will have to start paying the players. Period. Full stop. Crying poor won't cut it with the courts. The players are going to get paid directly by the schools. Once you realize that, you have to apply all the public accounting information you have developed over the years and decide where to cut in order to pay the players. Remember, "we can't afford to pay them" won't work.

I am fully aware that major renovations are normally paid for by donations. That's normally not in the annual budgets.

Here is UGA for 2022:

1707348742983.png
When UGA has to pay their players, that will become part of the expenses. If you can't see that paying coaches, support, and admin 44% of your expenses, while paying players nothing, I am not sure what to tell you. There is $77 million per year they can start getting rid of. Facilities and Equpment, Game Expenses and Travel, and Recruiting is another pile of money - $56 million. That's a total of $133 million ... UGA can find room in their to pay the players.

No one said this would be easy. It's kind of hard to put the salary genie back in the bottle, but tough shit. We all have to make tough bsuiness decisions all the time. Maybe don't run an illegal enterprise next time.

I get there are other programs that don't have this amount of money to do this ... they will have to go to a division where they don't pay the players, or don't pay as much. "Oh, but that sucks." Sure, tell that to the players.

All data from College Athletics Database

Here is Ball State, as a G5 example:

1707349160779.png

And Iowa State that quickly came to mind for B12 team:

1707349224598.png
 
Then it's good that the Athletic Department isn't the "schools." Athletic departments are run exactly like a business because it's a business. They can totally not hire as many assistant coaches, as much recruiting staff, not pay the HC $10 million, etc. If that affects recruiting, etc., tough. Everyone is going to have to pay the labor now so everyone will be facing the same challenges.

FWIW, "schools" can do the same thing. Instead of continually raising tuition, they would be better off with fewer administrators. They don't have to have all the fabulous dorms, climbing walls, etc. This is a choice they make, and they could make other choices. They choose not to.

There is nothing special about "schools" or athletic departments that keep them from having to work within basic business concepts.
Buddy you are preaching to the choir. Higher ed is a fucking racket. That said, I'm just telling you what's realistic. I don't disagree with what you're saying in theory, but in practice it's a very different story. Kudos to you for taking a paycut to bring on a new employee, also.
 
what % of athletes on actual teams (not clubs) do you think are on scholarship?

I'm not saying everybody should be paid the same, but there should be some minimum.
I do not have that percentage at the moment. The minimum is a free degree, free housing, free food, free swag, etc. which to my knowledge the majority of varsity athletes have (aside from walk-ons).
 
Buddy you are preaching to the choir. Higher ed is a fucking racket. That said, I'm just telling you what's realistic. I don't disagree with what you're saying in theory, but in practice it's a very different story. Kudos to you for taking a paycut to bring on a new employee, also.
Your "realism" is going to be trumped by my "legalism." It's going to be found - really already has - that it is illegal to not pay the players.. Once that is established, it doesn't matter what is real, what matters is what is legal. "We can't afford it" won't work. I posted some numbers above. They will have to cut expenses somewhere to pay the players. There will not be a way to get around it.
 
Your "realism" is going to be trumped by my "legalism." It's going to be found - really already has - that it is illegal to not pay the players.. Once that is established, it doesn't matter what is real, what matters is what is legal. "We can't afford it" won't work. I posted some numbers above. They will have to cut expenses somewhere to pay the players. There will not be a way to get around it.
Oh there will be. Schools will drop teams. The huge schools won't have this issue, but the Ball States and Middle Tennessees of the world will, and you can kiss goodbye a giant chunk of their athletic department. You can spout off about "leaglism" all you want, at the end of the day you aren't getting coaches to magically accept paycuts or stadiums to be cheaper to maintain. Sorry man, that's just reality.
 
Oh there will be. Schools will drop teams. The huge schools won't have this issue, but the Ball States and Middle Tennessees of the world will, and you can kiss goodbye a giant chunk of their athletic department. You can spout off about "leaglism" all you want, at the end of the day you aren't getting coaches to magically accept paycuts or stadiums to be cheaper to maintain. Sorry man, that's just reality.
That's not getting around it. That's adjusting the legality and taking the steps they have to take.

Here we go again. I am not "spouting" anything. You are just being obtuse because you don't like where this is heading. If the Supreme Court says that colleges are in violation of anti-trust laws by not paying the players, and they have to pay the players, that's as real as it gets. You keep confusing "reality" with tough decisions that will have to be made.

Seriously, have you every owned or run a business and had to make budget decisions? It certainly doesn't sound like it. Tough decisions have to be made to comply with the law. You do what you have to do, and the schools will do exactly that.

The Ball States and the MTSU's won't be able to compete with the big schools, so they will form a system that can survive by paying players less, or playing for free under different rules - like the Ivy's do. Or, they will eliminate teams.
 
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