Poll Rule change?: Dropped 3rd strike.

[fordman84]

Unless there's a man on first of course, then it's different

Only if there are less than two outs.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

because it is insanely easy to foul a bunt. So you could have a 100 pitch at bat to lead off the game and wear out a pitcher. Or you just keep fouling off pitches and get a walk every time.

 

[DragonFromTo]

Only if there are less than two outs.

Yep, but all of this just kind of complicates the point even more. You could force the guy on first to run. Is that definitely not more right/fair/fun? Why does either one need to happen when having it consistent and making 3 strikes an out regardless of whether it's caught or not or who's on what base would take care of it? I don't think it's that crazy to be open to that discussion.

 

[DragonFromTo]

because it is insanely easy to foul a bunt. So you could have a 100 pitch at bat to lead off the game and wear out a pitcher. Or you just keep fouling off pitches and get a walk every time.

Foul it off and not miss it or get it fair by accident even once? I know that 100 was a deliberate exaggeration but I also don't think it's as easy as you do. I do suspect it was probably a little easier to do it back when the rules were first drawn up though.

 

[fordman84]

Yep, but all of this just kind of complicates the point even more. You could force the guy on first to run. Is that definitely not more right/fair/fun? Why does either one need to happen when having it consistent and making 3 strikes an out regardless of whether it's caught or not or who's on what base would take care of it? I don't think it's that crazy to be open to that discussion.

Dropped 3rd really isn't an issue in the MLB, hardly ever see it more than a throw down to first. Dropped third at the MLB level is just so that little league has it in their rule book too (which are basically the same). Dropped third the first year of kid pitch is a HUGE deal. Quickly gets less and less of one.

 

[fordman84]

Foul it off and not miss it or get it fair by accident even once? I know that 100 was a deliberate exaggeration but I also don't think it's as easy as you do. I do suspect it was probably a little easier to do it back when the rules were first drawn up though.

I can push the knob of the bat forward and catch the ball over to foul territory on any pitch over the plate. 100% of the time. And I'm not even that great of a hitter. So someone actually training and practicing to do it, could pretty easy. then if it is not a strike I pull back and take the ball.

That's why that bunt 3rd strike out exists. Just too easy to guard the strike zone.

 

[DragonFromTo]

Dropped 3rd really isn't an issue in the MLB, hardly ever see it more than a throw down to first. Dropped third at the MLB level is just so that little league has it in their rule book too (which are basically the same). Dropped third the first year of kid pitch is a HUGE deal. Quickly gets less and less of one.

So changing the rule would greatly affect Little League games, I get/got that. But would the change be for the worse? I'm not sure that it would be but as I said, I think there's a discussion.

 

[DragonFromTo]

I can push the knob of the bat forward and catch the ball over to foul territory on any pitch over the plate. 100% of the time. And I'm not even that great of a hitter. So someone actually training and practicing to do it, could pretty easy. then if it is not a strike I pull back and take the ball.

That's why that bunt 3rd strike out exists. Just too easy to guard the strike zone.

What speed pitch are you facing when you do this? And it never goes fair? Are you facing balls that move and break like major league pitches? I also think that the balance between hitting and pitching might swing a little bit at the highest levels and that pitchers are probably relatively better at handling hitters the higher up the food chain you get (even after accounting for improved defense and the like).

I was never questioning why the rule existed (or even saying that it shouldn't exist, it should), just speculating on the relative likelihood/difficulty of the exception it was created for. For instance, similarly I seem to recall that you can actually start running after tagging up on a fly ball as soon it touches the outfielder's glove because otherwise he MIGHT be able to just juggle the ball all of the way in to the pitcher. Good luck executing that maneuver these days though

 

[broncosmitty]

Foul it off and not miss it or get it fair by accident even once? I know that 100 was a deliberate exaggeration but I also don't think it's as easy as you do. I do suspect it was probably a little easier to do it back when the rules were first drawn up though.

Wasn’t until ‘03 that foul balls were counted as strikes.

 

[DragonFromTo]

Wasn’t until ‘03 that foul balls were counted as strikes.

Which is really even funnier when you consider that some of that time before the change it was underhand shit coming from the pitcher anyway

Like I said, I'm not saying it's a bad rule. Even if you foul off 10-15 or so that's a huge effect, you could have a reliever gassed after 1 batter.

 

[DragonFromTo]

I can push the knob of the bat forward and catch the ball over to foul territory on any pitch over the plate. 100% of the time. And I'm not even that great of a hitter. So someone actually training and practicing to do it, could pretty easy. then if it is not a strike I pull back and take the ball.

That's why that bunt 3rd strike out exists. Just too easy to guard the strike zone.

I would also ask, when you say "the knob" are you talking about the actual knob? I am trying to visualize this.

 

[fordman84]

So changing the rule would greatly affect Little League games, I get/got that. But would the change be for the worse? I'm not sure that it would be but as I said, I think there's a discussion.

a dropped 3rd strike happens in roughly 90% of 9u games

And of those probably only about 10% are thrown or tagged out. It's a lot of great practice for catchers to work on keeping the ball under control and making a throw down. Since 9u has tight-bases too, not a lot of chances otherwise to get the catcher working on throwing down.

 

[fordman84]

What speed pitch are you facing when you do this? And it never goes fair? Are you facing balls that move and break like major league pitches? I also think that the balance between hitting and pitching might swing a little bit at the highest levels and that pitchers are probably relatively better at handling hitters the higher up the food chain you get (even after accounting for improved defense and the like).

I was never questioning why the rule existed (or even saying that it shouldn't exist, it should), just speculating on the relative likelihood/difficulty of the exception it was created for. For instance, similarly I seem to recall that you can actually start running after tagging up on a fly ball as soon it touches the outfielder's glove because otherwise he MIGHT be able to just juggle the ball all of the way in to the pitcher. Good luck executing that maneuver these days though

breaking balls don't matter when you are squared up and know right where the strike zone is. You can pull back quickly if it moves out. And yeah, you can shoot the ball down the 1b line from the right side batter box without any issue, even if the ball is moving.

Bunting foul is really easy. Bunting fair is a PITA

 

[DragonFromTo]

a dropped 3rd strike happens in roughly 90% of 9u games

And of those probably only about 10% are thrown or tagged out. It's a lot of great practice for catchers to work on keeping the ball under control and making a throw down. Since 9u has tight-bases too, not a lot of chances otherwise to get the catcher working on throwing down.

I mean am I a dick if I say that it sounds like that's what practice is for?

 

[fordman84]

I would also ask, when you say "the knob" are you talking about the actual knob? I am trying to visualize this.

Yes, the bottom hand. You push that out and you will hit anything off to the right (if you are a right handed batter). And if you just barely tip it, it's going over the catchers right shoulder.

 

[fordman84]

I mean am I a dick if I say that it sounds like that's what practice is for?

No, not a dick. But practice and games are different at the kid pitch level. You can't pitch a kid in practice as much as would be necessary and then have them ready for games.

 

[DragonFromTo]

breaking balls don't matter when you are squared up and know right where the strike zone is. You can pull back quickly if it moves out. And yeah, you can shoot the ball down the 1b line from the right side batter box without any issue, even if the ball is moving.

Bunting foul is really easy. Bunting fair is a PITA

I played baseball all through high school and one year in college so I'm not coming into this totally ignorant. I am still quite skeptical of "I can do this 100 times and almost never miss". And I was a good bunter/contact hitter too (as a kid I knew the ride home would be very rough after any strikeout ).

 

[DragonFromTo]

Yes, the bottom hand. You push that out and you will hit anything off to the right (if you are a right handed batter). And if you just barely tip it, it's going over the catchers right shoulder.

Seems like one broken hand could end that at bat pretty quickly

 

[DragonFromTo]

No, not a dick. But practice and games are different at the kid pitch level. You can't pitch a kid in practice as much as would be necessary and then have them ready for games.

I thought we were getting the catcher reps here, why can't you do the pitching?

 

[fordman84]

I played baseball all through high school and one year in college so I'm not coming into this totally ignorant. I am still quite skeptical of "I can do this 100 times and almost never miss". And I was a good bunter/contact hitter too (as a kid I knew the ride home would be very rough after any strikeout ).

Yeah, but you were bunting for a hit. Bunting to hit foul is a lot easier.