Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC

[Blackshirts BLVD]

One issue that I see with the current Big12 members is the belief that their program will just fall off the map if they are not Power5. Programs like Boise State, BYU, Cincinnati, and UCF are NOT power 5 but have very stable and successful football programs. I hate to say this, but it is very, very unlikely that any of these 8 teams would play for a National Title if they are in a Power 5 league so from a competitive perspective, they really are not losing anything by moving to G5 status. They could rack up more wins and championships at the G5 level versus a Power 5 level.

Yep. I mean there are some exceptions, TCU/Baylor 2014 and Okie St 2011 come to mind. They were all technically 1 win away from the playoff. K-St was close in 2012, but fell short as well.

Once the new league is formed, like I mentioned, the G5 or whatever it calls itself then will likely have their own national title system as well and the remaining Big 12 teams will have a chance at that.

 

[OlyDuck]

One issue that I see with the current Big12 members is the belief that their program will just fall off the map if they are not Power5. Programs like Boise State, BYU, Cincinnati, and UCF are NOT power 5 but have very stable and successful football programs. I hate to say this, but it is very, very unlikely that any of these 8 teams would play for a National Title if they are in a Power 5 league so from a competitive perspective, they really are not losing anything by moving to G5 status. They could rack up more wins and championships at the G5 level versus a Power 5 level.

how do you define stable?
Boise pretty stable other than a new coach. continuous division champs and some conference titles
BYU had an 11 win season against 12 G5 opponents prior to that they were 9, 4, 7, 7, wins.
Cinci has had 3 good seasons under Fickle, if they live up to expectations do you really think he is still there in 22. and prior to him coming Cinci had some lean years.
UCF had a good 4 year run after not doing much (0-12 in 15) and then last year didnt do much.

 

[Volbound1700]

how do you define stable?
Boise pretty stable other than a new coach. continuous division champs and some conference titles
BYU had an 11 win season against 12 G5 opponents prior to that they were 9, 4, 7, 7, wins.
Cinci has had 3 good seasons under Fickle, if they live up to expectations do you really think he is still there in 22. and prior to him coming Cinci had some lean years.
UCF had a good 4 year run after not doing much (0-12 in 15) and then last year didnt do much.

They are regular contenders. Note that even the Power 5 teams are not stable unless you are Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or Clemson. Most of the rest of the Power 5 has been very up and down. Heck, 3-4 years ago Oregon was really struggling.

One thing to keep in mind with G5 is that there are gaps even in it. American Athletic Conference is far stronger than let's say Conference USA.

Even if the Big12 loses Power 5 status, the current 8 teams would still be in a stronger position than the Sunbelt, MAC, Conference USA, and perhaps even the Mountain West. (Mountain West has some good teams but they also have a lot of junk teams as well which weakens their prestige).

 

[duckboy33]

They are regular contenders. Note that even the Power 5 teams are not stable unless you are Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or Clemson. Most of the rest of the Power 5 has been very up and down. Heck, 3-4 years ago Oregon was really struggling.

One thing to keep in mind with G5 is that there are gaps even in it. American Athletic Conference is far stronger than let's say Conference USA.

Even if the Big12 loses Power 5 status, the current 8 teams would still be in a stronger position than the Sunbelt, MAC, Conference USA, and perhaps even the Mountain West. (Mountain West has some good teams but they also have a lot of junk teams as well which weakens their prestige).

I agree. Almost every program is going to go through ups and downs.

Cincy has had plenty of success prior to Fickell. They were one of the better programs in the Big East before it became the AAC. UCF has all the things you need to succeed and have won BCS/NY6 games with two different coaches in the last 10 seasons. Those would be the best additions for the Big 12 right now IMO.

Boise would be fine, just realize you are probably getting 2015-2020 Boise and not 2007-2011 Boise.

 

[Volbound1700]

I would rate the following G5 programs (for various reason) as a higher tier of programs. Some haven't seen recent success but have facilities and fan support enough to potentially compete in the future:

Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Colorado State, BYU, Air Force, UCF, USF, East Carolina, Memphis, Cincinnati, Connecticut (this one is questionable), Temple, Navy, Army, Southern Mississippi, Houston, SMU, Hawaii, Marshall, Tulane, and Tulsa.

The current Big12 would probably fall into this category. I was also tempted to put Troy in the least but they are probably too small (along with most of the Sunbelt) to fit into the category. Keep in mind that I am looking at full program and overall history. A lot of these programs above have been D1 for a long time and have had some success in the past on the grid iron.

 

[78Cyclones]

They are regular contenders. Note that even the Power 5 teams are not stable unless you are Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or Clemson. Most of the rest of the Power 5 has been very up and down. Heck, 3-4 years ago Oregon was really struggling.

One thing to keep in mind with G5 is that there are gaps even in it. American Athletic Conference is far stronger than let's say Conference USA.

Even if the Big12 loses Power 5 status, the current 8 teams would still be in a stronger position than the Sunbelt, MAC, Conference USA, and perhaps even the Mountain West. (Mountain West has some good teams but they also have a lot of junk teams as well which weakens their prestige).

I'll go a step farther. I think if the Big VIII teams add Cincinnati and Houston (or two comparable programs) they will clearly be the Best non-P4 Conference. Better than the AAC and MWC but not on par with the P4 - for now. Somewhere in the middle. This is a much better option for those teams than disbanding and going to the AAC or the MWC if there is no additional P4 expansion movement invloving Big VIII teams.

 

[OlyDuck]

They are regular contenders. Note that even the Power 5 teams are not stable unless you are Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or Clemson. Most of the rest of the Power 5 has been very up and down. Heck, 3-4 years ago Oregon was really struggling.

One thing to keep in mind with G5 is that there are gaps even in it. American Athletic Conference is far stronger than let's say Conference USA.

Even if the Big12 loses Power 5 status, the current 8 teams would still be in a stronger position than the Sunbelt, MAC, Conference USA, and perhaps even the Mountain West. (Mountain West has some good teams but they also have a lot of junk teams as well which weakens their prestige).

no even those teams hit rough spots. just fewer than others.

Alabama pre saban
a couple of Dabo's first few seasons. as well as other parts of the 90s and yes i know that was a long time ago.
same with Oklahoma. pre stoops was a struggle.
Ohio State prob the most consistent. they have like a bad season every so often by their standards and "only" win 9. except the transition year with Fickell at interim

yeah 16 was a rough year for Oregon.

perception is that the American is the strongest and they probably are but by far?


all conferences have those teams UNLV is no worse than East carolina on average. 3-4 per season.

 

[Volbound1700]

no even those teams hit rough spots. just fewer than others.

Alabama pre saban
a couple of Dabo's first few seasons. as well as other parts of the 90s and yes i know that was a long time ago.
same with Oklahoma. pre stoops was a struggle.
Ohio State prob the most consistent. they have like a bad season every so often by their standards and "only" win 9. except the transition year with Fickell at interim

yeah 16 was a rough year for Oregon.

perception is that the American is the strongest and they probably are but by far?


all conferences have those teams UNLV is no worse than East carolina on average. 3-4 per season.

UNLV could probably make the list as well, good point.

I knew East Carolina would be a controversial one because they haven't been good recently. However, they actually have a fairly dedicated fanbase and a 50k stadium. They draw more fans than some of the ACC schools based in North Carolina. In the 1980s and 1990s they were a fairly stout program.

Southern Miss also fits that bill. They were once great but have fallen on more difficult times recently. Southern Miss, of course, was also the home of Brett Favre.

 

[OlyDuck]

UNLV could probably make the list as well, good point.

I knew East Carolina would be a controversial one because they haven't been good recently. However, they actually have a fairly dedicated fanbase and a 50k stadium. They draw more fans than some of the ACC schools based in North Carolina. In the 1980s and 1990s they were a fairly stout program.

Southern Miss also fits that bill. They were once great but have fallen on more difficult times recently. Southern Miss, of course, was also the home of Brett Favre.

na ECU is all over the place. a good season here and there. a small run but mostly a roller coaster.

Winsipedia - East Carolina Pirates football all-time record, wins, and statistics - The American Conference

 

[OlyDuck]

UNLV could probably make the list as well, good point.

I knew East Carolina would be a controversial one because they haven't been good recently. However, they actually have a fairly dedicated fanbase and a 50k stadium. They draw more fans than some of the ACC schools based in North Carolina. In the 1980s and 1990s they were a fairly stout program.

Southern Miss also fits that bill. They were once great but have fallen on more difficult times recently. Southern Miss, of course, was also the home of Brett Favre.

but overall yes ECU has a better program than UNLV but lately not so much.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Another far-fetched scenario that the B1G could be after is Missouri. Not any chatter there but that would be a team that might be attractive enough to pull the trigger if you are getting Kansas. SEC would then have to go grab another team (Oklahoma State would be an easy plug-in).

Would have to be another home run type school so nothing short of Cincinnati makes any sense.

 

[Goldbug]

You need a date at the High School Dance and all of the hot girls are taken so you go with the a "6" or so just to have someone to dance with.

The problem is this "6" has a STD.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Yep. I mean there are some exceptions, TCU/Baylor 2014 and Okie St 2011 come to mind. They were all technically 1 win away from the playoff. K-St was close in 2012, but fell short as well.

Once the new league is formed, like I mentioned, the G5 or whatever it calls itself then will likely have their own national title system as well and the remaining Big 12 teams will have a chance at that.

Did you not just state this was all going to move to a 50 team league? And you think none of the orphan 8 will be part of that?

 

[OlyDuck]

Did you not just state this was all going to move to a 50 team league? And you think none of the orphan 8 will be part of that?

at current 65 teams in power conferences and Notre Dame.
if its 50 who gets dropped?

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Did you not just state this was all going to move to a 50 team league? And you think none of the orphan 8 will be part of that?

Idk honestly, maybe, maybe not. We know certain teams from each conference will be though

SEC - Bama, LSU, Florida, UGA, Tenn, A&M, OU, Texas, Auburn
ACC - Clemson, Miami, FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech, NC State, G-tech
B1G - Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St, Penn St, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota
PAC - Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Colorado, Stanford, Cal, Arizona St

That's 32 right there. And there maybe more included in that depending on who you ask.

Then the remaining 18 spots will be filled with the best leftovers, with some G5 competition such as Cincy, BYU, Memphis, UCF, Boise St, Houston, etc...Plus, obviously Notre Dame will be taking a spot as well.

If it makes you feel any better, I would have WVU in the remaining 18, probably Pitt too so that we can get that rivalry back. But it is going to be a tight fit and a lot will get left out.

 

[7samurai13]

Idk honestly, maybe, maybe not. We know certain teams from each conference will be though

SEC - Bama, LSU, Florida, UGA, Tenn, A&M, OU, Texas, Auburn
ACC - Clemson, Miami, FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech, NC State, G-tech
B1G - Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St, Penn St, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota
PAC - Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Colorado, Stanford, Cal, Arizona St

That's 32 right there. And there maybe more included in that depending on who you ask.

Then the remaining 18 spots will be filled with the best leftovers, with some G5 competition such as Cincy, BYU, Memphis, UCF, Boise St, Houston, etc...Plus, obviously Notre Dame will be taking a spot as well.

If it makes you feel any better, I would have WVU in the remaining 18, probably Pitt too so that we can get that rivalry back. But it is going to be a tight fit and a lot will get left out.

GTech, Minnesota, Colorado, UCLA, NC State, Arizona State all get invited? Why? DropDeadFred picking the teams?

 

[OlyDuck]

teams at the bottom of all time win% in the P5
Wake Forest, Indiana, Northwestern, Kansas State, Iowa State, Oregon State, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Duke, Miss St, Rutgers, Washington State, Kentucky, Illinois, South Carolina

thats 15
eliminates 2 ACC
4 Big Ten
2 Pac
4 SEC
3 Big XII

 

[Volbound1700]

Idk honestly, maybe, maybe not. We know certain teams from each conference will be though

SEC - Bama, LSU, Florida, UGA, Tenn, A&M, OU, Texas, Auburn
ACC - Clemson, Miami, FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech, NC State, G-tech
B1G - Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St, Penn St, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota
PAC - Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Colorado, Stanford, Cal, Arizona St

That's 32 right there. And there maybe more included in that depending on who you ask.

Then the remaining 18 spots will be filled with the best leftovers, with some G5 competition such as Cincy, BYU, Memphis, UCF, Boise St, Houston, etc...Plus, obviously Notre Dame will be taking a spot as well.

If it makes you feel any better, I would have WVU in the remaining 18, probably Pitt too so that we can get that rivalry back. But it is going to be a tight fit and a lot will get left out.

Add Arkansas, Ole Miss, and South Carolina to SEC. All three are still profitable programs with decent-size fanbases.

 

[Volbound1700]

teams at the bottom of all time win% in the P5
Wake Forest, Indiana, Northwestern, Kansas State, Iowa State, Oregon State, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Duke, Miss St, Rutgers, Washington State, Kentucky, Illinois, South Carolina

thats 15
eliminates 2 ACC
4 Big Ten
2 Pac
4 SEC
3 Big XII

I can see that list being cut. The only exception is probably South Carolina who has more successful the last 20 years but most importantly, has a decent size stadium, a large fanbase that comes to games, and is one of the top 30 or so most profitable football programs. They really don't fit with the rest of the teams listed.

 

[OlyDuck]

I can see that list being cut. The only exception is probably South Carolina who has more successful the last 20 years but most importantly, has a decent size stadium, a large fanbase that comes to games, and is one of the top 30 or so most profitable football programs. They really don't fit with the rest of the teams listed.

next team above SC was Baylor who has a .510 win % to SC .508