GAME The Game: Michigan @ #2 The Ohio State | Noon EST on Fox

Illustrious Potentate said:
Rich Rod wasn’t bad at Arizona and he’s pretty good at Jville State. He was more of a terrible fit than a bad coach IMO. Hoke was a shit coach for sure though
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But Hoke did well at SDSU both before and after Michigan. He's a perplexing one. Maybe he just does well in the lower leagues? IDK.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Rich Rod at Michigan was the most comically obvious bad fit you'll ever see.
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Was gonna take a complete roster overhaul for Michigan to fit his system. He did improve every year, but worst fit ever for sure
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
But Hoke did well at SDSU both before and after Michigan. He's a perplexing one. Maybe he just does well in the lower leagues? IDK.
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That next level up can be too much. Been countless good mid major coaches that flamed out when they got their first major program job
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
WDYM, spread option QB Ryan Mallett seems obvious

Also RIP
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Justin Feagin is actually better than Terrelle Pryor - I recall Michigan fans on their boards actually making this claim.

I think the guy took a handful of snaps in his career and then did some criminal shit.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
Was gonna take a complete roster overhaul for Michigan to fit his system. He did improve every year, but worst fit ever for sure
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Funny how Hoke then got WORSE every year lol.

I think Rich Rod's ceiling at the time was a 8/9 win a year coach, he was heading there but that wasn't gonna be good enough in the long run.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Funny how Hoke then got WORSE every year lol.

I think Rich Rod's ceiling at the time was a 8/9 win a year coach, he was heading there but that wasn't gonna be good enough in the long run.
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wait until Sam McGuffie gets rolling
 
Ryan Day trying to run up the middle vs Michigan with the current state of this team is about equal to the comedy of Rich Rod trying to run the spread option with Threet and Sheridan.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
But Hoke did well at SDSU both before and after Michigan. He's a perplexing one. Maybe he just does well in the lower leagues? IDK.
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one of the things that really did Hoke in in the last two years was the OL development, or lack thereof. This year's OL may have been a slog, but it might as well have been the 2021/22 OL in comparison to the 2013-14 lines... they were AWFUL. The offense regressed every year under Hoke. The Hoke defenses were good though
 
navamind said:
one of the things that really did Hoke in in the last two years was the OL development, or lack thereof. This year's OL may have been a slog, but it might as well have been the 2021/22 OL in comparison to the 2013-14 lines... they were AWFUL. The offense regressed every year under Hoke. The Hoke defenses were good though
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If the o-line sucks, doesn’t matter how talented the rest of the offense is. The o-line depth at the end was a big reason why Richt was fired, and it showed in Kirby’s first year when they were getting bullied by Nicholls State and Vanderbilt
 
Across The Field said:
It's hard to argue that Day very well may just be one of those guys that is a terrific coordinator but isn't meant to be a HC. Then again, I look at Harbaugh's first 6 years at michigan and how horrible of a job he did, and he has an NFL job now.
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If Harbaugh had been the HC at Ohio any of the last 5 years with the roster Day has had -- you not only would have won the B1G every year, but would have won a national title, if not more than 1.

I've told you for a few years now -- a team takes on the identity of their HC. They instill a culture within the program and Ohio is soft under Day. You punch them in the mouth -- they fold. It is why Michigan has dominated the trenches the last 4 years.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
I think people are really under appreciating what Harbaugh did. From 1990 - 2014 michigan had 8, 10+ win seasons. We only had 2 since 2000. The year before Harbaugh we had 5 wins and missed a bowl. In his first 4 years, he won 10 games 3 times. He was also up against a fully established (and rolling) Ohio State team that just won a national title. It took him 6 years be he flipped that entirely on its head to the point where OSU is now in turmoil.

Imagine telling that to an OSU fan in 2016 and how crazy they'd laugh at you.
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Dude, his first 6 years were essentially just doing the bare minimum for that program, with all the hoopla and resources and recruiting success they already had established. He had one bowl win (same as Hoke did in half the time, but also a shittier bowl), one ranked OOC win (ND I think?), 0 CCG appearances, 0 wins over OSU and was .500 against Sparty. The graphics that show before/after Stallions just illustrate this (this isn't a discussion on Stallions, it's just a discussion about how mediocre he was for his first 6 years). He had plenty of talent coming in, but even you can't act like he wasn't a below average coach objectively speaking all those years.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
If Harbaugh had been the HC at Ohio any of the last 5 years with the roster Day has had -- you not only would have won the B1G every year, but would have won a national title, if not more than 1.

I've told you for a few years now -- a team takes on the identity of their HC. They instill a culture within the program and Ohio is soft under Day. You punch them in the mouth -- they fold. It is why Michigan has dominated the trenches the last 4 years.
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If we had Harbaugh we would have the NCAA elbow deep in our assholes for cheating. For the majority of his time at michigan, he was a mediocre/below average coach. Stop trying to act like that isn't true.
 
Without the 2023 season, Jim would have left Michigan with a mediocre resume considering all of the hype when he was hired

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Illustrious Potentate said:
If the o-line sucks, doesn’t matter how talented the rest of the offense is. The o-line depth at the end was a big reason why Richt was fired, and it showed in Kirby’s first year when they were getting bullied by Nicholls State and Vanderbilt
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Yep and the most annoying part about a program rebuild is that the OL development is usually the final piece to the puzzle
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
Was gonna take a complete roster overhaul for Michigan to fit his system. He did improve every year, but worst fit ever for sure
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I think RRod would have had a better offense in 2011 than Hoke's, though I don't think the defense makes the jump that it did under Hoke. RRod loved his 3-3-5 and I don't think that was ever going to work in the Big Ten. I remember Wisconsin running 29 times in a row against them in 2010
 
Across The Field said:
Dude, his first 6 years were essentially just doing the bare minimum for that program, with all the hoopla and resources and recruiting success they already had established. He had one bowl win (same as Hoke did in half the time, but also a shittier bowl), one ranked OOC win (ND I think?), 0 CCG appearances, 0 wins over OSU and was .500 against Sparty. The graphics that show before/after Stallions just illustrate this (this isn't a discussion on Stallions, it's just a discussion about how mediocre he was for his first 6 years). He had plenty of talent coming in, but even you can't act like he wasn't a below average coach objectively speaking all those years.
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The stallions graphic is stupid. Because it's also before and after Minter/McDonald. It's also before/after JJ and Corum. It's also before/after like 40 NFL draft picks.

Harbaugh turned a team that was a dumpster fire for a good portion of 8 years prior into a team that was consistently in the title race at the end of the year for the B10. He had two truly bad seasons out of 9, and one of those was Covid where a bunch of starters opted out.

Harbaugh's first 6 Michigan teams were only below standard if you use Ohio State as the standard. They were well above average compared to pretty much everyone else; including Michigan for most of this millennium. And he was inches away from beating Ohio State a few times in that first 6 year span.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Now let's expand that
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Yeah, he turned things around and he had a good record if you just compare it to previous coaches. But I remember a lot of UM fans putting him on the hot seat because he couldn't win the big one. Sort of similar to Day. Expectations are more important than records sometimes.

It just takes one great season to change the perception. If Day wins a Natty, a lot will be forgiven.
 
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