tOfficial 23-24 NHL season thread

DragonFromTo · Jan 9, 2024

RP-29 said:
Yeah, there's a great deal of elite scouting, wise decision making and good fortune involved to get good depth for cheap. How confident are you that Toronto Maple Leafs management can pull that off?

Is there a way to build a winner where those things are not required? If the people doing the work are the problem how does doing things your way solve that and allow you to win? It just allows them to screw up more things, they get to sign a bunch of bad contracts instead of a couple.

We'll find out if they can pull it off. I guess I'd say I like their chances of pulling it off more than I liked the alternatives.

RP-29 · Jan 9, 2024

DragonFromTo said:
Is there a way to build a winner where those things are not required? If the people doing the work are the problem how does doing things your way solve that and allow you to win? It just allows them to screw up more things, they get to sign a bunch of bad contracts instead of a couple.

We'll find out if they can pull it off. I guess I'd say I like their chances of pulling it off more than I liked the alternatives.

Do you consider the Toronto Maple Leafs to be a 'winner' franchise? I don't. To me, you need to win playoff series (plural) to qualify. The Leafs have repeatedly shown they're not built for playoff success.

What's funny to me is that I thought the move for Ryan O'Reilly was the best depth move Toronto has made in the Auston Matthews-core era and they actually finally won a playoff series (with him playing more minutes than Tavares and Nylander). O'Reilly is they type of 200' player you need for playoff success. He signed for $4.5M AAV in Nashville. If you didn't have to pay Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares so much, maybe you could've kept him. $4.5 seems like a pretty solid deal to me for a guy who has gotten Selke and Byng votes almost every season of his career and has won both trophes along with a Conn Smythe.

DragonFromTo · Jan 9, 2024

RP-29 said:
Do you consider the Toronto Maple Leafs to be a 'winner' franchise? I don't. To me, you need to win playoff series (plural) to qualify. The Leafs have repeatedly shown they're not built for playoff success.

What's funny to me is that I thought the move for Ryan O'Reilly was the best depth move Toronto has made in the Auston Matthews-core era and they actually finally won a playoff series (with him playing more minutes than Tavares and Nylander). O'Reilly is they type of 200' player you need for playoff success. He signed for $4.5M AAV in Nashville. If you didn't have to pay Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares so much, maybe you could've kept him. $4.5 seems like a pretty solid deal to me for a guy who has gotten Selke and Byng votes almost every season of his career and has won both trophes along with a Conn Smythe.

Ryan O'Reilly did not want to re-sign in Toronto. For seemingly any amount. This was reported. No one knows exactly why but speculation is that he did not like the media attention in his hometown.

Plus I already mentioned Bertuzzi and Klingberg who were acquired this offseason, both are making similar money to O'Reilly this year. Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Tavares's salaries seemingly didn't prevent that.

I would also add that if we are talking about this season Nylander isn't even the 4th highest paid player on the Leafs. Get up Morgan Reilly's ass if you want this to be a 2023-2024 foursome :wink:

RP-29 · Jan 9, 2024

DragonFromTo said:
Ryan O'Reilly did not want to re-sign in Toronto. For seemingly any amount. This was reported. No one knows exactly why but speculation is that he did not like the media attention in his hometown.

Plus I already mentioned Bertuzzi and Klingberg who were acquired this offseason, both are making similar money to O'Reilly this year. Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Tavares's salaries seemingly didn't prevent that.

I would also add that if we are talking about this season Nylander isn't even the 4th highest paid player on the Leafs. Get up Morgan Reilly's ass if you want this to be a 2023-2024 foursome

Neither Bertuzzi or Klingberg are worth much on the defensive end of the ice. I thought both signings were bad fits for what the Leafs actually need. With that Nylander contract kicking in next year, they're not going to be able to sign those types of guys anyway until the Tavares and/or Marner contract(s) come off the books. I don't remember if I said it on here or not, but when the Leafs signed Jarnkrok and Bertuzzi I stated I thought Jarnkrok would probably work out better for them than Bertuzzi. Seems to be ringing true so far and for a much lower AAV.

I must've missed the report on O'Reilly not wanting to re-sign in Toronto. Did not know that. If I was in his shoes, I'd probably be irritated that there's not enough focus on the defensive end of the ice from management because that's how I'd be if I was a Leafs fan.

DragonFromTo · Jan 9, 2024

RP-29 said:
Neither Bertuzzi or Klingberg are worth much on the defensive end of the ice. I thought both signings were bad fits for what the Leafs actually need. With that Nylander contract kicking in next year, they're not going to be able to sign those types of guys anyway until the Tavares and/or Marner contract(s) come off the books. I don't remember if I said it on here or not, but when the Leafs signed Jarnkrok and Bertuzzi I stated I thought Jarnkrok would probably work out better for them than Bertuzzi. Seems to be ringing true so far and for a much lower AAV.

I must've missed the report on O'Reilly not wanting to re-sign in Toronto. Did not know that. If I was in his shoes, I'd probably be irritated that there's not enough focus on the defensive end of the ice from management because that's how I'd be if I was a Leafs fan.

Luckily both Tavares and Marner have just one more season on their respective contracts, as I mentioned before. So nobody is even locked into 4 big immoveable contracts here yet.

I did not mention Bertuzzi and Klingberg because I thought they were good fits but simply because they are both making decent (ROR sized) money as depth guys despite the big contracts that are present higher up on the depth chart. There was room for O'Reilly's salary, there was just little to no interest on his end.

RP-29 · Jan 10, 2024

DragonFromTo said:
Luckily both Tavares and Marner have just one more season on their respective contracts, as I mentioned before. So nobody is even locked into 4 big immoveable contracts here yet.

I did not mention Bertuzzi and Klingberg because I thought they were good fits but simply because they are both making decent (ROR sized) money as depth guys despite the big contracts that are present higher up on the depth chart. There was room for O'Reilly's salary, there was just little to no interest on his end.

Nice "yet" you added to that statement. Exudes supreme confidence at Leafs management.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this coming offseason. The projected cap for next year is $87.7M. They've got $64M locked up in 11 players. That leaves $23.7M for 11 players to fill out the roster - or about $2.1M per. Do the Leafs have any players on their ELC ready to play in the NHL next year? If not, good luck finding quality free agent depth for under $2M.

:beer2:

DragonFromTo · Jan 10, 2024

RP-29 said:
Nice "yet" you added to that statement. Exudes supreme confidence at Leafs management.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this coming offseason. The projected cap for next year is $87.7M. They've got $64M locked up in 11 players. That leaves $23.7M for 11 players to fill out the roster - or about $2.1M per. Do the Leafs have any players on their ELC ready to play in the NHL next year? If not, good luck finding quality free agent depth for under $2M.

Was "OMG they have 4 huge immoveable contracts!!!" not the nightmare scenario that you were talking about? That is the reason that I included the "yet". I could have just said "Your scenario is not even based in reality" but I was not wanting to sound confrontational.

That projected cap for next year is what, a $4 million increase? And Nylander is getting a $4.5 million raise? Seems like the problem next year is similar to what they had to manage this year rather than something significantly more difficult.

They do/will have a couple of guys ready to move up I think but I think that you are forgetting about the guys who are going to be unsigned RFAs, CapFriendly does not include them for next year. They have a handful of those types as well and they don't/won't cost $2 million.

Shit, if you want a depth signing they could have bought two David Clarksons for that Nylander price :wink: