What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

SU Nittany Tide said:
Hunters absolutely sight in their rifles, but they do this ahead of time at a number of distances. You don't do it on the fly. Obviously you would scare away the animal if hunting, but I can't imagine you'd do it in any other scenario either.
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Especially this scenario. The biggest advantage of a sniper is surprise. That’s the biggest problem I have here. Well said.

I’m not a major shooter myself but I can totally see a shooter at the range using a shot or two to lock in the scope. But, that doesn’t apply to this situation.
 
broncosmitty said:
With gusto.
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that’s what you do when you have real conviction about something and aren’t afraid to state a position.

speaking of which, I’ve asked this before but no response so I’ll ask again. you’ve seemed to call into question one of the lineup photos regarding the tippet shooting. Do you believe Oswald shot tippet?
 
dbldwn711 said:
Let’s talk a little about this and add some real facts for context:

Oswald tried to kill Gen walker on April 10, 1963. He came home that night and told marina what he did. Marina was afraid he would try to kill walker again so she insists that they go back to NO (LHO was born there).
they leave for NO that same month.

They get to NO and Oswald is handing out leaflets trying to get people to join his organization. He hands them out all summer but he gets ZERO people to join.

Oswald is frustrated. He isn’t making it in America. He didn’t make it Russia. He then decides that he and marina are gonna go live in Cuba.

In September he sends marina back to Dallas to live with Ruth Paine while he travels to Mexico City to try and get to Cuba so he can send for marina.

Some have suggested that LHO wasn’t actually in Cuba. They say it was a body double. However, we have his route from NO to Mexico City. On 9/25/63 LHO boards a continental trailways bus (No 5121) from NO to Houston. On 9/26/63 he boards another continental trailways bus (No 5133) for Laredo Tx. That same day at about 2pm (about 12 hours later) according to immigration documents LHO crosses over into Mexico. Shortly after crossing into Mexico he gets on Flecha Roja bus number 516 and takes an overnight trip to Mexico City which gets him there on Friday AM 9/27/63.

Why are these details important? Because the Kennedy’s trip to dallas was announced for the FIRST TIME on 9/26/63. This is EXACT time that Oswald is trying to get himself and his family to cuba. Some conspiracy theorists suggest that this trip to Mexico City to was really a rouse to lay the blame for an assassination at the feet of Russia or Cuba but nobody knew Kennedy was even going to Dallas until the 26th when the trip was announced. Additionally, even if Oswald was brought into a conspiracy after retuning from Mexico City where’s the phone calls? Where’s the meetings that did that? There aren’t any.

Oswald goes to the Cuban embassy for a visa. They tell him the only way he can go to Cuba is via a layover in Russia. He then goes to the Russian embassy for a visa but they turn him away. He then goes back to the Cuban embassy who rejects him again.

He stays in Mexico City a few days and returns to Dallas in early October (6 weeks before the assassination). When he returns he needs a job. We all know that ends up working at the TSBD. How did he get that job? If he’s involved in a conspiracy then it must have been the Russians or the mob or the CIA that got him that job right? Except it wasn’t. It was Ruth Paine (the same lady who marina had been staying with). Ruth had a brother who worked there. Ruth called the supervisor DIRECTLY to get LHO the job at the TSBD. That means if there is conspiracy then Ruth Paine MUST be involved. Where’s the evidence of that?

oswald gets starts working at the TSBD in mid October. A verbal description of the motorcade route wasn’t announced until September 19 (see below) when it was published in the two local Dallas papers. The route map itself was published in both Dallas papers a few days later on the 21st and 22nd.

Here’s the confusion about the motorcade being “changed at the last minute”. The map routes published in the papers on the 21st and 22nd do NOT show the turn onto elm and Houston. They show the motorcade going straight on Main. The reason for this is the scale of the map that was printed was too small. The fact is that the PREVIOUS publications of the route on September 19 (see below) list the turns into Houston and elm. There was no “last minute change”. Here, see for yourself.

View attachment 37204


heres the other…

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The fact is there’s nothing sinister about the motorcade route. There was no last minute change just like there were no meetings or phone calls that brought Oswald into a conspiracy.
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It was a legitimate question. Not a gotcha moment.

TL;DR
 
beardown07 said:
It was a legitimate question. Not a gotcha moment.

TL;DR
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I certainly didn’t take it as a gotcha. I saw your wrench emoji. I took it as a legit question. That’s why I provided the proof of it. I didn’t want you to have to take my word for it. I’m not viewing any of this thread as a gotcha moment. As I’ve said many times, this isn’t the PF. It’s a discussion about a book.
 
@beardown07 what are your thoughts on this case? Who do you think did the shooting?
 
dbldwn711 said:
that’s what you do when you have real conviction about something and aren’t afraid to state a position.

speaking of which, I’ve asked this before but no response so I’ll ask again. you’ve seemed to call into question one of the lineup photos regarding the tippet shooting. Do you believe Oswald shot tippet?
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Two of the other dudes in the lineup were Dallas detectives. What the fuck is that?

Yes, I believe he murdered Officer Tippet. And would’ve murdered Officer Nick whatshisnuts but the hammer jammed on the webbing of his hand.
 
beardown07 said:
I don't know. I just know it was capitalized on and it traumatized a generation, which was also capitalized on.
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fwiw I agree. I think most Americans believe there was some type of conspiracy even if they think LHO fired some shots. As Ive said multiple times, I too thought for a very long time that there was one. That is until I read this book. this book caused me to look at the situation in a much different manner. I too had heard all the “problems“ with the lone gunman theory including things like the motorcade route being changed at the last minute. This book caused me to drill down into the facts (much like I did in that post) and I soon started to realize that things that I thought were sinister really weren’t. I soon started to realize that each thing I thought was true actually had a reasonable explanation. I quickly realized that I had been “capitalized” on by these people wanting to sell books.

That includes posner (the author here). It’s why I take all new info I get and search for an explanation that is NOT consistent with LHO as the lone gunman.
 
broncosmitty said:
Two of the other dudes in the lineup were Dallas detectives. What the fuck is that?

Yes, I believe he murdered Officer Tippet. And would’ve murdered Officer Nick whatshisnuts but the hammer jammed on the webbing of his hand.
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cops are often used in lineups. For me, that’s not the problem with that photo. The problem with that photo is how they are dressed. Haha. That’s absurd. If you wanna use cops (which they do) you’ve gotta dress them in similar clothes as the suspect.
 
broncosmitty said:
Two of the other dudes in the lineup were Dallas detectives. What the fuck is that?

Yes, I believe he murdered Officer Tippet. And would’ve murdered Officer Nick whatshisnuts but the hammer jammed on the webbing of his hand.
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I don’t know to be honest. That picture and the concept of it all looks like shit.

I’m sure there was a requirement for a proper lineup, but what other suspects were there. They very quickly felt they had this case by the balls. I’m not sure why you don’t bring some other prisoners in for the lineup to fill it out instead of cops.

It’s peculiar for sure. But I think it revolves around policing as it’s always been. When you feel you have a case and suspect by the balls you end up running ramrod straight at it. All else is formality.

That’s a real thing that happens. The fact that it might have went on with a police force that all of the sudden had the most chaotic circus on their hands is something.

Let’s face it. They didn’t do a good job of controlling even their own space at HQ. I’m not sure any force of the day would have been prepared for it, but Dallas sure wasn’t.
 
Getting back to Tippet.

I think it’s beyond question that Oswald shot him. Many eyewitnesses saw him do the shooting or fleeing the scene after the shooting. More importantly, his gun (which was on him at the time of his arrest) was the weapon that killed tippet. They found some shell casings and his jacket which he tried to ditch after the shooting and before he was captured. Lastly, he was apprehended just a short distance away after acting suspiciously.

I am puzzled by only one thing regarding the tippet shooting. If tippet spotted Oswald and he fit the description of the person they were looking for in connection with the TSBD incident then why hadn’t he unsnapped his holster?
 
I see the tag for me to answer the question about zeroing a rifle has been answered already. Since I'm here, may as well confirm.

Gun scopes need to be zeroed in from time to time, as even a small jostling can throw off the accuracy. Think back to math with a Cartesian plane (x/y axes). The coordinate (0, 0) is in the middle of the two axes (crosshairs).

Zeroing is done by lining up the bullseye and crosshairs and firing at a target, or series of targets, set at the distance(s) you're most likely to be taking a shot that counts. Elevation and expected weather conditions should also be considered. Once you fire a few shots aiming at the bullseye, you can adjust the scope left/right/up/down based on the grouping (consistency). Fire some more to get the next grouping and so on until your grouping is on the bullseye. This takes time and is in your ideal situation with a static target.

While I have needed to adjust my aim on the fly for a second shot at a deer due to a scope being off initially, no one would intentionally miss their first shot to zero in their scope for a second or third shot that needed to be done in seconds on a moving target that is going to evade. You take that first shot as if everything was perfect, and yes, you can adjust on the fly, but that is not the intended goal.
 
Cobrabit said:
I see the tag for me to answer the question about zeroing a rifle has been answered already. Since I'm here, may as well confirm.

Gun scopes need to be zeroed in from time to time, as even a small jostling can throw off the accuracy. Think back to math with a Cartesian plane (x/y axes). The coordinate (0, 0) is in the middle of the two axes (crosshairs).

Zeroing is done by lining up the bullseye and crosshairs and firing at a target, or series of targets, set at the distance(s) you're most likely to be taking a shot that counts. Elevation and expected weather conditions should also be considered. Once you fire a few shots aiming at the bullseye, you can adjust the scope left/right/up/down based on the grouping (consistency). Fire some more to get the next grouping and so on until your grouping is on the bullseye. This takes time and is in your ideal situation with a static target.

While I have needed to adjust my aim on the fly for a second shot at a deer due to a scope being off initially, no one would intentionally miss their first shot to zero in their scope for a second or third shot that needed to be done in seconds on a moving target that is going to evade. You take that first shot as if everything was perfect, and yes, you can adjust on the fly, but that is not the intended goal.
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thx man. VERY helpful and thorough
 
@broncosmitty id like to hear your thoughts on why you think there was a grassy knoll shooter. Obviously, you’ve mentioned that you have this belief because of the movement of the head/body going backwards. Is that the main reason? Are there any other reasons? What type of gun did this shooter use? Same as Oswald? Any thoughts you have on why you think a shooter was in the knoll would be appreciated.

This question is posed to smitty but really anyone is free to answer it. I’m interested in why people think there was someone there shooting.
 
dbldwn711 said:
thx man. VERY helpful and thorough
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To add a little regarding moving targets, you set your zero at the expected first shot. In my case, the distance from my tree stand to a clearing I expect deer to come towards. However, you take additional shots at targets set at different distances to understand how far off you may be from zero at those distances (along the range of the field that I'd have a clear shot). This will allow you to adjust your aim on the fly (e.g. aiming higher for a shot further away than your zero).
 
dbldwn711 said:
Getting back to Tippet.

I think it’s beyond question that Oswald shot him. Many eyewitnesses saw him do the shooting or fleeing the scene after the shooting. More importantly, his gun (which was on him at the time of his arrest) was the weapon that killed tippet. They found some shell casings and his jacket which he tried to ditch after the shooting and before he was captured. Lastly, he was apprehended just a short distance away after acting suspiciously.

I am puzzled by only one thing regarding the tippet shooting. If tippet spotted Oswald and he fit the description of the person they were looking for in connection with the TSBD incident then why hadn’t he unsnapped his holster?
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I know they had a description out pretty quick, but was the description out at this point?

Also, the description was not super full of detail when it went out. LHO had gone back to him home by cab, the landlady watched him come in and right back out. He changed his jacket to a different color.

I’ve often wondered why Tippit wasn’t better prepared. But then possibly Oswald just looked like someone walking around in a daze when he pulled up. Imagining there was a lot of people about town at that moment walking around in a daze.
 
Cobrabit said:
To add a little regarding moving targets, you set your zero at the expected first shot. In my case, the distance from my tree stand to a clearing I expect deer to come towards. However, you take additional shots at targets set at different distances to understand how far off you may be from zero at those distances (along the range of the field that I'd have a clear shot). This will allow you to adjust your aim on the fly (e.g. aiming higher for a shot further away than your zero).
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Thanks for the feedback. I just felt it totally illogical to take a aiming shot, adjust and still very off two more critical shots on a moving target.

It’s a feat in its own right that Oswald got those shots off as it were.
 
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