Poll Which dead program is the most dead?

Most dead program

  • Total voters
    49
osubuckeye89 said:
The great majority of Michigan State's success was in the 1950s and 1960s

Outside of 2010-2015 they are really a mediocre at best program since the 1970s. outside of a few outlier years here and there.
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I would say Michigan State has been in the upper half of the B1G over the last 30 years, even if you break down the decades individually.

Michigan State has had a better program than anyone in B1G not named Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin (well Nebraska as well if you count the era prior to them joining the B1G).
 
Volbound1700 said:
Yeah but I gave my distinction in that programs have to be rated in the all-time top 25 category for consideration. That is a cut-off which eliminated Colorado.

Michigan State, I think, has multiple titles so if we go with multiple title argument, they belong. Then again, you have to include most the Ivy League under that scenario :pound:
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Also stated in the OP that team must belong to a P5 conference to qualify. You’re officially dead when you drop divisions
 
osubuckeye89 said:
I don't really count teams whos success was almost all Pre WW2 - Minnesota for example.
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True, you could count Sewanee or Vanderbilt for the SEC because they were powerhouses when the SEC was formed. (Ironically both started falling off in 1930s after the SEC's formation).
 
There just doesn't seem to be any substantial momentum at Pitt. They'd probably be excited to have Jackie Sherrill back.
 
Volbound1700 said:
I would say Michigan State has been in the upper half of the B1G over the last 30 years, even if you break down the decades individually.

Michigan State has had a better program than anyone in B1G not named Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin (well Nebraska as well if you count the era prior to them joining the B1G).
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Looks like MSU has finished in the top half of the conference in 29 of 52 seasons since 1970

I think the teams outside of the obvious have been pretty interchangeable besides like the Indiana and Northwestern types.
 
I am going to go back to Notre Dame as although I am not sure they fit the term fallen program since they have had some competition, I do think Notre Dame may have fallen the furthest from a prestige standpoint because they once used to be the center of College Football and it has been a long, long time (longer than Nebraska) since their high point.

Notre Dame was arguably, the center of the College Football world from 1930s until about 1980s. Lou Holtz era seems to be their last big hoorah.

Notre Dame has some shot to get back but I think staying independent is holding them back. I am also going to get to how Miami's fate may match Notre Dame's decision.

Notre Dame needs to join a conference, in my opinion, to get back. They have only two realistic options: ACC and B1G. I think if Notre Dame joins the B1G, they will be in the shadow of Michigan and Ohio State. They will make a lot of $$$ but I don't think they would win.

If Notre Dame joins the ACC, they will be the center of attention with that league along with Clemson (if they continue to maintain their high level). The ACC looks like a conference ready to implode but it has a lot of good programs that are underperforming.

If you look at it, the ACC can boast several programs with some history of College Football success including:

1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. FSU
4. Virginia
5. Virginia Tech
6. Pittsburgh
7. Syracuse
8. NC State
9. Georgia Tech
10. Louisville
11. North Carolina

All the programs listed above have potential. Notre Dame could come into the ACC and rejuvenate its program along with some of the ones on this list by the added $$$ of the deal. Bring another team, perhaps West Virginia, along and it just makes sense. You shore up the ACC and you have a league that includes media markets such as Boston, Atlanta, Miami, New York, Washington DC, etc. The entire Eastern Seaboard basically. You also have recruiting access to the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Georgia to bolster your teams.

There is great untapped potential with the ACC.

Financially, Notre Dame to B1G makes sense but from a program building aspect, Notre Dame would see more success in the ACC.

I think Miami's fate is based on the survival of the ACC. They are not as attractive of an option as Clemson, FSU, UNC, etc. to B1G and SEC. If the ACC can survive and shore things up with Notre Dame, Miami would get an influx of capital and with the right coach could be rolling again at some point.
 
Volbound1700 said:
True, you could count Sewanee or Vanderbilt for the SEC because they were powerhouses when the SEC was formed. (Ironically both started falling off in 1930s after the SEC's formation).
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I’m gonna need you to read the OP and make note of all qualifiers
 
HammerDown said:
There just doesn't seem to be any substantial momentum at Pitt. They'd probably be excited to have Jackie Sherrill back.
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They won the ACC last year and had a first round QB but they are generally a program that is going to have great years every 4-5 seasons and that is about it.

Fan attendance is a problem as well. They had a great crowd out for Tennessee but I watched their home game with Georgia Tech and the stadium was mostly empty.

The Pittsburgh Steelers are just a massive brand for them to compete against.
 
HammerDown said:
There just doesn't seem to be any substantial momentum at Pitt. They'd probably be excited to have Jackie Sherrill back.
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Pitt has been average at best overall since joining the Big East in 1991. They will never replicate the success they had as a independent.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Pitt has been average at best overall since joining the Big East in 1991. They will never replicate the success they had as a independent.
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The Big East needed Penn State and perhaps Notre Dame as well to remain viable as a conference. If the Big East had both of those programs, it might have been interesting to see where CFB would be as a sport today.
 
Volbound1700 said:
They won the ACC last year and had a first round QB but they are generally a program that is going to have great years every 4-5 seasons and that is about it.

Fan attendance is a problem as well. They had a great crowd out for Tennessee but I watched their home game with Georgia Tech and the stadium was mostly empty.

The Pittsburgh Steelers are just a massive brand for them to compete against.
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Depends on how you define "great"

Since joining a conference in 1991 they only have 2 10 win seasons and have only finished in the top 25 4 times.
 
If I can pile on Nebraska for a minute, the fan support isn’t dead, the ability to win games consistently or even at all is dead. Perhaps that changes but I dunno if it ever will at this point. The stadium emptying out during home losses tends to make the big shots running the school nervous.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Depends on how you define "great"

Since joining a conference in 1991 they only have 2 10 win seasons and have only finished in the top 25 4 times.
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Dang, I didn't realize it was that bad. Last year was great for Pitt.

Yeah Big East was pretty much dominated by Miami and Virginia Tech in football with that 1-2 year span were Syracuse made some noise. Then once Miami and Virginia Tech left, it became all about West Virginia most years until it faded as a league (I know Cincinnati, UConn, and Louisville made a splash a year or 2).
 
Huskers4me said:
If I can pile on Nebraska for a minute, the fan support isn’t dead, the ability to win games consistently or even at all is dead. Perhaps that changes but I dunno if it ever will at this point. The stadium emptying out during home losses tends to make the big shots running the school nervous.
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True but I get this vibe that with Nebraska, it is all about getting the right hires. I think you guys have been making the wrong hires. You also have a division that, in truth, should be easier to win. Most of the B1G top programs are in the East so the B1G is really setup for Nebraska to succeed.

If you guys can get a solid coaching hire that brings confidence and a winning attitude back to the program, than I think the turnaround may not be as difficult as people think. It may start with AD as well. Tennessee had to get a good AD first (Danny White) to turn things around.

Tennessee isn't just doing well in football right now. Our men's bball team is preseason #11 and coming off SEC Tournament win. Women's bball is coming back and ranked #5 in preseason. Baseball was ranked #1 and got #1 seed in tournament. Softball is ranked. Athletic Department in Knoxville is healthy right now.
 
Colorado. Only 7 bowl appearances since the beginning of the century and only 2 bowl appearances in the last 14 seasons, on the verge of becoming 2 out of 15.

Volbound1700 said:
Dang, I didn't realize it was that bad. Last year was great for Pitt.
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unfortunately, they had a tall task of replacing Pickett and then their top WR from last year (Jordan Addison) transferred to USC. the dropoff in their passing game has been huge.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Dang, I didn't realize it was that bad. Last year was great for Pitt.

Yeah Big East was pretty much dominated by Miami and Virginia Tech in football with that 1-2 year span were Syracuse made some noise. Then once Miami and Virginia Tech left, it became all about West Virginia most years until it faded as a league (I know Cincinnati, UConn, and Louisville made a splash a year or 2).
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Syracuse was actually pretty respectable throughout the 90s. 6 top 25 finishes and no losing seasons, they only didn't play in a bowl 2 times in the decade. They fell off the cliff after 2001.
 
Volbound1700 said:
The Big East needed Penn State and perhaps Notre Dame as well to remain viable as a conference. If the Big East had both of those programs, it might have been interesting to see where CFB would be as a sport today.
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If you want to talk about success due to beating on scrubs. Miami is up there.

For a long time Miami basically had 1 game a year in the Big East that was actually a challenge.

Over half the Big East could be described as bad or terrible the majority of the time in the 90s and early 2000s
 
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