Why the SEC doesn't want FSU and Clemson ...

Tharvot said:
Of who's fanbase? The NCAA? Certainly not the B1G and SEC fanbases. You also aren't cutting in to the national fanbase for prime time games. Neutrals tune in to those big time matchups for the spectacle, same goes for playoff matchups. For the regular season conference play, regional fans of non P2 teams will still mostly watch their teams on separate platforms.

I think the analogy does fit. Maybe a similar comparison would be the English Premier League. It was once a part of a broader English Professional Division that broke away to form their own, higher tier division. The Championship division still has some good teams and the games are exciting, but no one really cares on a national level compared to the EPL. Same holds true in the new CFB world where 2 conferences hold all the cards. Locally and regionally, you have your own fans but nationally no one really cares about schools outside of the big boys.

You may not like it (i don't either, i miss the old regional appeal to it all), but that is exactly the direction CFB is heading: Pro Football.
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Except the English pyramid as a whole still gives teams the opportunity to move up to the premier league. Are you advocating for this in CFB with the P2? If not then this isn’t close to the same comparison.

An adequate comparison (imo) is the super league, teams like Real Madrid and Juventus wanted. It got so much bad press and backlash it never got off the ground. Even though many of the big clubs were for it. Thats exactly what you are advocating for here.
 
ericd7633 said:
With the expanded CFP, I doubt ND ever joins a conference. They are in the best position possible. If they are ever good enough to be a top 4 team, they'll slide to the #5 spot and play the worst team in the CFP, and then if they win, play the worst AQ team in the CFP. They'll also get their bye during championship week. I just don't ever see it happening unless they have to for some reason.
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If FSU and Clemson both leave the ACC, is ND content with their scheduling agreement with the ACC? Is NBC?
 
duckboy33 said:
If FSU and Clemson both leave the ACC, is ND content with their scheduling agreement with the ACC? Is NBC?
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No, but I don't think ND will have any trouble putting together a schedule. It won't cost ND as much to back out of the ACC deal. If FSU and Clemson leave, my guess is ND follows. Honestly, if we were ever to join a league the ACC is a much better fit than the B10 is IMO. Obviously that wont happen if FSU and Clemson leave.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Agreed.

The #5 spot which will most often be the loser of the SECCG or the B1GCG is starting to look very attractive. As you point out, you will get the G5 representative in a home game, and then play the worst of the ACC or B12 champ in round 2.

If you win the SEC or B1G, you get a bye then you have to play the no. 7 or 8 team which will likely be the SEC or B1G no. 3 team - LSU, Texas, PSU, Oregon, UM. Still want the byte, but the no. 5 slot is very attractive.
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#5 spot is reserved for ND if they are ranked high IIRC
 
ericd7633 said:
No, but I don't think ND will have any trouble putting together a schedule. It won't cost ND as much to back out of the ACC deal. If FSU and Clemson leave, my guess is ND follows. Honestly, if we were ever to join a league the ACC is a much better fit than the B10 is IMO. Obviously that wont happen if FSU and Clemson leave.
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Better fit argument aside, ND will never join the ACC as a full member. The ACC is a losing proposition. That's why schools are suing the conference in order to leave. If ND is forced to join a conference, it will have to be the Big Ten or the SEC.
 
duckboy33 said:
Better fit argument aside, ND will never join the ACC as a full member. The ACC is a losing proposition. That's why schools are suing the conference in order to leave. If ND is forced to join a conference, it will have to be the Big Ten or the SEC.
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Yeah, I know they never will, but it would make more sense than the other 2. It would be interesting to see how much more $$ the league would get as a whole if they joined. The league is so bloated now, it would take like $350 million/yr to match what they reportedely make from the NBC deal after it's split up among the teams.
 
ralphiewvu said:
Except the English pyramid as a whole still gives teams the opportunity to move up to the premier league. Are you advocating for this in CFB with the P2? If not then this isn’t close to the same comparison.

An adequate comparison (imo) is the super league, teams like Real Madrid and Juventus wanted. It got so much bad press and backlash it never got off the ground. Even though many of the big clubs were for it. Thats exactly what you are advocating for here.
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I love promotion-relegation in pro sports, but it they also don't have a draft or playoffs so it would have to be a complete rework of how we view/do professional sports.

Superleague is a similar thing for sure. And it would make the clubs involved a shit ton of money.
 
ralphiewvu said:
Except the English pyramid as a whole still gives teams the opportunity to move up to the premier league. Are you advocating for this in CFB with the P2? If not then this isn’t close to the same comparison.

An adequate comparison (imo) is the super league, teams like Real Madrid and Juventus wanted. It got so much bad press and backlash it never got off the ground. Even though many of the big clubs were for it. Thats exactly what you are advocating for here.
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Promotion-relegation ain't going to happen. Look how many charter members of the B1G and SEC could be gone. Can't have Oklahoma State replacing Purdue can we?
 
Thiefery said:
#5 spot is reserved for ND if they are ranked high IIRC
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I've not seen that. It would make sense that if a no. 1 ranked SEC team beats a no. 2 ranked SEC, and ND is no. 4, the SECCG loser would be no. 5. You simply can't reward ND for not playing that extra game.
 
ralphiewvu said:
Except the English pyramid as a whole still gives teams the opportunity to move up to the premier league. Are you advocating for this in CFB with the P2? If not then this isn’t close to the same comparison.

An adequate comparison (imo) is the super league, teams like Real Madrid and Juventus wanted. It got so much bad press and backlash it never got off the ground. Even though many of the big clubs were for it. Thats exactly what you are advocating for here.
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That's exactly correct ... that is the perfect analogy, and the backlash was quick and angry. The same would happen here. Imagine cutting out 2/3 of CFB, something that is enjoyed by millions of fans every Saturday even if they know they can't win a championship, and you still don't get any more money. It's an absurd concept that for some reason people like to keep bringing up when there isn't an economic argument for it, and ample arguments against it.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I've not seen that. It would make sense that if a no. 1 ranked SEC team beats a no. 2 ranked SEC, and ND is no. 4, the SECCG loser would be no. 5. You simply can't reward ND for not playing that extra game.
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If ND is ranked 1-4 in the final CFP poll, they are automatically the #5 seed, if I'm not mistaken.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I've not seen that. It would make sense that if a no. 1 ranked SEC team beats a no. 2 ranked SEC, and ND is no. 4, the SECCG loser would be no. 5. You simply can't reward ND for not playing that extra game.
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ND isn't allowed to grab a top 4 seed since they are not in a conference
 
Tharvot said:
I love promotion-relegation in pro sports, but it they also don't have a draft or playoffs so it would have to be a complete rework of how we view/do professional sports.

Superleague is a similar thing for sure. And it would make the clubs involved a shit ton of money.
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Again, you point out exactly why CFB will never be a pro league, even if they are making money as such, and have to treat their players similarly by paying them. But it stops there, and the Super League idea goes away:

- 2% of players go on to play pro sports, so education is actually a real thing with college sports. A huge percentage of them get degrees, and that helps them in life. That will always stay a thing, no matter the money.

- You can't have a draft - you can't tell the number 132 ranked player they have to go and play for Toledo. Or, even in a Super League scenario, you can't tell the no. 34 team they have to play for Nebraska when they live in Miami.

- Relegation - points to the idea that conferences still matter - there is no way that Vanderbilt, should they be in the Super League, would suddenly not be. College sports makes a lot of money, but they don't and won't want that.

- Conferences - Conferences do matter. Look at the difference between how the SEC and the B1G look at things. Yet somehow, they are going to agree to come together? Nah. Also, who do you think is going to volunteer to resign - Sankey or Tony Petitti? Yeah, see what I mean?
 
Thiefery said:
ND isn't allowed to grab a top 4 seed since they are not in a conference
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I know that, but was referring to this:

"If ND is ranked 1-4 in the final CFP poll, they are automatically the #5 seed, if I'm not mistaken."

The scenario I painted was that two SEC or B1G teams are 1, 2, 3 or 4 before the CCG. Does losing the CCG drop them below ND?
 
Tharvot said:
I love promotion-relegation in pro sports, but it they also don't have a draft or playoffs so it would have to be a complete rework of how we view/do professional sports.

Superleague is a similar thing for sure. And it would make the clubs involved a shit ton of money.
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I think they could rework it. The problem is it would have little to no support likely from teams already in that P2 spot.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
That's exactly correct ... that is the perfect analogy, and the backlash was quick and angry. The same would happen here. Imagine cutting out 2/3 of CFB, something that is enjoyed by millions of fans every Saturday even if they know they can't win a championship, and you still don't get any more money. It's an absurd concept that for some reason people like to keep bringing up when there isn't an economic argument for it, and ample arguments against it.
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While I agree and love this thought process, if the money is right for a playoff where the P2 doesn’t have to split then they are def going to do it. I don’t know how it happens where the money is there though. Plus we are getting or are there to the point that most (if not all teams) in the B12 and ACC aren’t going to be some threat to the big boys in the P2 come playoff time. Throw those two conferences a bone and let their champion in and every now and then a 2nd team gets an out large for a nice season and watch them lose in the playoffs early. Sucks for teams like mine but at least we aren’t left behind.

But long story short the economics aren’t there at least now for the P2 to break away.
 
ralphiewvu said:
While I agree and love this thought process, if the money is right for a playoff where the P2 doesn’t have to split then they are def going to do it. I don’t know how it happens where the money is there though. Plus we are getting or are there to the point that most (if not all teams) in the B12 and ACC aren’t going to be some threat to the big boys in the P2 come playoff time. Throw those two conferences a bone and let their champion in and every now and then a 2nd team gets an out large for a nice season and watch them lose in the playoffs early. Sucks for teams like mine but at least we aren’t left behind.

But long story short the economics aren’t there at least now for the P2 to break away.
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Basically, that's all I am saying ... show me the economics, yet no one can.

I firmly believe that the "whole" is more valuable than just the P2 parts, even if it will be rare that a non-P2 team gets a NC, let alone to the final game. The last non-P2 (I am assuming that Clemson and FSU will be P2 at some point) to win a NC was Miami in 2001. Other than Miami, Colorado/GaTech, and then BYU. So it rarely has happened in the past, and it won't in the future. No change.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I know that, but was referring to this:

"If ND is ranked 1-4 in the final CFP poll, they are automatically the #5 seed, if I'm not mistaken."

The scenario I painted was that two SEC or B1G teams are 1, 2, 3 or 4 before the CCG. Does losing the CCG drop them below ND?
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Yeah, that's unknown. If ND is ranked 1-4 in the final CFP poll they will be #5. If ND is #5 heading into CCG week, it would likely depend on what happens in the CCG's. Nothing would be certain in your scenario.
 
ralphiewvu said:
I think they could rework it. The problem is it would have little to no support likely from teams already in that P2 spot.
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The biggest difference b/t the Euro Super League and the P2 optioning out of the NCAA for their own division is that the Euro Super League does not replace domestic competition. It's a direct replacement for the UCL, or at least that's how i understood it. The biggest similarity is that it was an attempt to break away from FIFA control in the same way my mythical CFB Super League would break away from NCAA control.
 
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