Clemson Joins FSU in Suing the ACC To Get Out of Media Rights

[Wild Turkey]

I doubt it. ESPN can opt out of the deal in February. I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN made an announcement by the first game this season.

I would be absolutely shocked if ESPN opted out.

 

[batchaps4me]

I would be absolutely shocked if ESPN opted out.

I disagree. If you think about it, between the value they are receiving from the ACC and the cost of fighting the lawsuits, it could be cost effective for them to pull out of the ACC deal, watch it collapse and push for several teams to join the SEC, which they also have the rights to. Especially if you believe that FSU is going to raise the cash to pay the buyout and the may lose them either way. Also, I bet in the next few weeks you are going to see other teams file or join the lawsuits.

 

[Thiefery]

I didn't say ridiculously rich attorney. Hell, I am not spending money to come to Texas because F1 has driven prices too high.

fly into houston and we can drive to the game together.. and we can have a real Austin experience with setting up a tent under the interstate and mingle with some real Austinites

#HookEm

 

[OlyDuck]

What is Rutgers (and schools like them in the B1G/SEC) going to do with all their media money?

"According to NJ Advance Media, the university’s 2023 fiscal report submitted to the NCAA shows Rutgers spent a record $153 million for the last fiscal year, which was close to an 11% bump from the previous year. The budget has more than doubled since Rutgers first joined the Big Ten, with the biggest expense in coaching salaries.

The athletic department also set a record for revenue with more than $125 million last year, thanks in large part to revenue from Big Ten media rights. Still, the athletic department overall is running a deficit of $54 million, according to the report."


Survive

 

[CoalTrain]

So if the 7 leave thats 10 remaining.
and if WVU Cinci UCF were interested in jumping (add another school like Memphis for even numbers)
could that open Big Xii to add Oregon State and Washington State and a third like Tulane?

That and/or possibly a merger of ACC/B12 absorbing WSU and OSU then a realignment to get schools a little closer to each other to cut travel costs for not only the football teams but also hoops and non revenue sports. They are going to be the new “G5” in a sense and every dollar is going to need to be maximized for those not in the BIG/SEC so .. not much is going to be off limits as far as being creative to cut costs.

 

[CoalTrain]

I wouldn’t be unhappy if the SEC sat it out and let the B1G bloat themselves into an almost impossible behemoth to manage.

At the end of the day the allure will probably be too great and the SEC will pull the trigger. I just hope they are exceptionally picky or walk.

I think 4 is the max they should take and my choices would be:

FSU
Clemson
UNC

I’d make a play for ND (sounds crazy but they haven’t joined the B1G and had the opportunity) just to see if it could happen and if not then I take Duke.

I’m sticking with my Duke pick and I’m tired of defending it so anyone that disagrees fine but I want to create the primer basketball conference in the country and control the narrative of all major college sports.

I may be wrong, time will tell, but I think these will be the last of the “power grab” moves in the realignment world as we’ve know it for the last.. 20+ years or so.
I believe (and again I could be wrong) that the next “realignment” moves we will see are going to be contraction not expansion and some of the “less than’s” in the BIG and SEC are going to be the ones left out by either:

A. The upper tier schools voting them out to have more money for themselves (see @Thiefery comment on Texas earlier ITT and the less thans, he ain’t wrong) or

B. Those same schools leaving SEC/BIG to join newly formed conference _______ which will consist of the be$t of the be$t out of the power 2 and splitting that enormous pie with themselves.

That’s why I think these moves are going to be very interesting for the P2.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I disagree. If you think about it, between the value they are receiving from the ACC and the cost of fighting the lawsuits, it could be cost effective for them to pull out of the ACC deal, watch it collapse and push for several teams to join the SEC, which they also have the rights to. Especially if you believe that FSU is going to raise the cash to pay the buyout and the may lose them either way. Also, I bet in the next few weeks you are going to see other teams file or join the lawsuits.

The lawsuits don’t involve ESPN at this point it’s between the schools and the conference.

If ESPN yanks the deal then they definitely get sued for tampering if the league falls apart. Not to mention they are getting those games dirt cheap and specially the ND away games.

I don’t see any reason ESPN bolts.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I may be wrong, time will tell, but I think these will be the last of the “power grab” moves in the realignment world as we’ve know it for the last.. 20+ years or so.
I believe (and again I could be wrong) that the next “realignment” moves we will see are going to be contraction not expansion and some of the “less than’s” in the BIG and SEC are going to be the ones left out by either:

A. The upper tier schools voting them out to have more money for themselves (see @Thiefery comment on Texas earlier ITT and the less thans, he ain’t wrong) or

B. Those same schools leaving SEC/BIG to join newly formed conference _______ which will consist of the be$t of the be$t out of the power 2 and splitting that enormous pie with themselves.

That’s why I think these moves are going to be very interesting for the P2.

Only players left having are in the ACC so once they get “absorbed” into the B1G or SEC expansion is definitely done.

Contraction makes sense but hard to pull off without a major fundamental shift in how college programs operate such as outside ownership. Then it becomes a mini NFL at that point.

The ACC dies and the P2 move to form their super division and eventually their own post seasons. The playoff right now is simply a bone to everyone else at this point.

 

[OlyDuck]

That and/or possibly a merger of ACC/B12 absorbing WSU and OSU then a realignment to get schools a little closer to each other to cut travel costs for not only the football teams but also hoops and non revenue sports. They are going to be the new “G5” in a sense and every dollar is going to need to be maximized for those not in the BIG/SEC so .. not much is going to be off limits as far as being creative to cut costs.

so does a 28 team (ACC/BigXII/Pac2) merger keep all conferences % therefore earning about 32.5% of the Playoff?

 

[Wild Turkey]

so does a 28 team (ACC/BigXII/Pac2) merger keep all conferences % therefore earning about 32.5% of the Playoff?

I think at that point the P2 say you guys do your own thing.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I may be wrong, time will tell, but I think these will be the last of the “power grab” moves in the realignment world as we’ve know it for the last.. 20+ years or so.
I believe (and again I could be wrong) that the next “realignment” moves we will see are going to be contraction not expansion and some of the “less than’s” in the BIG and SEC are going to be the ones left out by either:

A. The upper tier schools voting them out to have more money for themselves (see @Thiefery comment on Texas earlier ITT and the less thans, he ain’t wrong) or

B. Those same schools leaving SEC/BIG to join newly formed conference _______ which will consist of the be$t of the be$t out of the power 2 and splitting that enormous pie with themselves.

That’s why I think these moves are going to be very interesting for the P2.

I don't think you will see the lousy teams go. This isn't the NFL, where you can have a really bad team become a good team. It's not possible because there is no draft, and the system isn't set up to drive parity like the NFL. It isn't now and never will be. That means that haves have to have have-nots. If you get rid of Vanderbilt, then someone else has to become the new Vanderbilt. No one wants to be the Vanderbilt of CFB.

I've said it before ... losses are zero sum ... if you only have top teams then you will have top teams that go 6-6. No one wants that.

 

[batchaps4me]

The lawsuits don’t involve ESPN at this point it’s between the schools and the conference.

If ESPN yanks the deal then they definitely get sued for tampering if the league falls apart. Not to mention they are getting those games dirt cheap and specially the ND away games.

I don’t see any reason ESPN bolts.

From what I understand, and a lot of this is from Pate, the contract gives ESPN the ability to end the contract in 2027, at their sole discretion but have to give notice in February 2026. I believe that whatever decision they make will be announced by kickoff this season. It is not tampering, it is their contractual right to end the contract in 2027. ESPN and ESPN alone is the decision maker that can make the contract, and therefore the GOR, go away. If they profit from it, all the better for them.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

From what I understand, and a lot of this is from Pate, the contract gives ESPN the ability to end the contract in 2027, at their sole discretion but have to give notice in February 2026. I believe that whatever decision they make will be announced by kickoff this season. It is not tampering, it is their contractual right to end the contract in 2027. ESPN and ESPN alone is the decision maker that can make the contract, and therefore the GOR, go away. If they profit from it, all the better for them.

This is correct. It's laid out in FSU's lawsuit. Basically, ESPN has an option that has to be exercised, I believe, in 2025 as to whether they want to go on for the last 8 years of the deal. FSU is alleging this was (1) stupid, (2) fraudulent, (3) they didn't vote for it, and some other nonsense.

ESPN would exercise the option as long as they know Clemson and FSU are in it. If they leave later, I suspect that would trigger an option to end the contract.

 

[CoalTrain]

I don't think you will see the lousy teams go. This isn't the NFL, where you can have a really bad team become a good team. It's not possible because there is no draft, and the system isn't set up to drive parity like the NFL. It isn't now and never will be. That means that haves have to have have-nots. If you get rid of Vanderbilt, then someone else has to become the new Vanderbilt. No one wants to be the Vanderbilt of CFB.

I've said it before ... losses are zero sum ... if you only have top teams then you will have top teams that go 6-6. No one wants that.

I don’t think it will be bad teams that get left out but the least valuable brands. Vandy being one and probably one or both of the Mississippi schools in the SEC replaced by a FSU, Clemson the Rutgers, IU ect. from the BIG replaced by Notre Dame, North Carolina ect.
As far as bad records, yes it will be tougher but, it’s already going to be tougher with less and less undefeated and 1 or even 2 loss teams Imo these schedules are gonna be pretty brutal compared to the past.
It’s not the NFL but it is trending towards that model though many of us don’t like it, myself included. No draft but it WOULD have its version of a developmental league In the “leftover”conferences, G5 ect. Similar to how the NFL has used CFB for decades with its best players being taken by the highest bidding “have” programs that need the help similar to what we are seeing already. The NFL has a draft but that’s not necessarily the key to getting your program/franchise better. The NFL never has undefeated teams anymore and even with a draft certain franchises can’t seem to get their acts together and get to an elite level but the sport makes money hand over fist.
I feel certain that the same would happen in CFB, well ran/managed programs would thrive, even if only for a year or two with others even with all the parts in place somehow (happens already) can’t get out of their own way.

 

[batchaps4me]

This is correct. It's laid out in FSU's lawsuit. Basically, ESPN has an option that has to be exercised, I believe, in 2025 as to whether they want to go on for the last 8 years of the deal. FSU is alleging this was (1) stupid, (2) fraudulent, (3) they didn't vote for it, and some other nonsense.

ESPN would exercise the option as long as they know Clemson and FSU are in it. If they leave later, I suspect that would trigger an option to end the contract.

I agree with you mostly, but FSU is leaving one way or the other. Given that, ESPN would be stupid to opt in on the next eight years, especially with it looking like the BiG and SEC may break away from the NCAA. When that happens, both conferences will expand again and ESPN will be driving the money conservation, along with Fox.

 

[Wild Turkey]

From what I understand, and a lot of this is from Pate, the contract gives ESPN the ability to end the contract in 2027, at their sole discretion but have to give notice in February 2026. I believe that whatever decision they make will be announced by kickoff this season. It is not tampering, it is their contractual right to end the contract in 2027. ESPN and ESPN alone is the decision maker that can make the contract, and therefore the GOR, go away. If they profit from it, all the better for them.

This is correct. It's laid out in FSU's lawsuit. Basically, ESPN has an option that has to be exercised, I believe, in 2025 as to whether they want to go on for the last 8 years of the deal. FSU is alleging this was (1) stupid, (2) fraudulent, (3) they didn't vote for it, and some other nonsense.

ESPN would exercise the option as long as they know Clemson and FSU are in it. If they leave later, I suspect that would trigger an option to end the contract.

Ok, so I've missed something evidently.

You guys are saying that if FSU and Clemson leave the ACC that ESPN is still on the hook for all the ACC money?

I just can't believe they don't have an out if teams leave.

 

[ralphiewvu]

So if the 7 leave thats 10 remaining.
and if WVU Cinci UCF were interested in jumping (add another school like Memphis for even numbers)
could that open Big Xii to add Oregon State and Washington State and a third like Tulane?

WVU is not leaving the B12 for a gutted ACC.

The best option for the B12 (specifically the eastern B12 schools) at this point is the P2 takes a few schools from the ACc that would never join the B12 and NCst, VPI, UL and one other from the ACC come to the B12. Realistically I fail to see any better option.

 

[batchaps4me]

Ok, so I've missed something evidently.

You guys are saying that if FSU and Clemson leave the ACC that ESPN is still on the hook for all the ACC money?

I just can't believe they don't have an out if teams leave.

That's not what I am saying at all. FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC, no matter what. The ACC without Clemson and FSU is worth about the same tv money as a G5 conference and there isn't two brands that can join the ACC and elevate that worth. IF you think it is a given, and I do, that the SEC and BiG are going to break away from the NCAA, that means that the ACC will go the way of the PAC especially when Clemson and FSU leave. ESPN will be better off in both the short and long terms if they facilitate the end of the league, and therefore kill the GOR, and have a seat at the expansion table while negotiations for the expanded CFP are under way. BTW, I expect other teams in the ACC to file lawsuits against the ACC shortly and folks will start to realize that this is not just a FSU thing.

 

[Wild Turkey]

That's not what I am saying at all. FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC, no matter what. The ACC without Clemson and FSU is worth about the same tv money as a G5 conference and there isn't two brands that can join the ACC and elevate that worth. IF you think it is a given, and I do, that the SEC and BiG are going to break away from the NCAA, that means that the ACC will go the way of the PAC especially when Clemson and FSU leave. ESPN will be better off in both the short and long terms if they facilitate the end of the league, and therefore kill the GOR, and have a seat at the expansion table while negotiations for the expanded CFP are under way. BTW, I expect other teams in the ACC to file lawsuits against the ACC shortly and folks will start to realize that this is not just a FSU thing.

As long as they have an out if teams leave ESPN is going to ride it out. No reason not to because they get FSU, Clemson, Miami at a bargain price. If those teams jump they will end up paying 100mm for each of them potentially so it makes no sense to exit. If they have an option coming up more than last likely they will exercise it but with conditions that protect them.

If they don’t then they open themselves to tampering allegations. Easier to ride out a contract that is favorable to them.

 

[batchaps4me]

As long as they have an out if teams leave ESPN is going to ride it out. No reason not to because they get FSU, Clemson, Miami at a bargain price. If those teams jump they will end up paying 100mm for each of them potentially so it makes no sense to exit. If they have an option coming up more than last likely they will exercise it but with conditions that protect them.

If they don’t then they open themselves to tampering allegations. Easier to ride out a contract that is favorable to them.

There are hundreds of millions of reasons for ESPN to not ride it out. FSU and Clemson, among others, are leaving the ACC. Which makes more profit for ESPN, paying Clemson/FSU SEC money and playing a SEC schedule or paying the ACC $240 million for them to have an ACC schedule? Add to that the facts that the ACC will not be going with the SEC/BiG when they split from the NCAA. What do you think will happen to ESPN's ACC tv revenue when they are nothing more than a G5 conference in the next five years? Do you honestly think that from a monetary standpoint ESPN will be better off riding it out, or facilitating a few of the top money makers going to the SEC? They would be retaining the revenue generators, actually making more money given the schedules/matchups, and not paying the teams that can't generate revenue.