2022 Season Thread

[Illustrious Potentate]

I thought phantom cautions were created when Jeff Gordon needed to catch up.

Maybe, but they were a near weekly occurrence after the Kahne deal.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I think you have to compete in all the races unless you have a waiver like Kurt Busch is getting.

yes. It blocks all part time drivers from getting in the show. But Kyle, Kurt, Denny, Tony stewart all been in the chase with waivers.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

100% agreed, other than to NASCAR’s credit, they have pretty well stopped the phantom debris cautions. Have no doubt that a few years ago, there would have been a caution when that car blew a tire with like 5 to go yesterday and Harvick having an insurmountable lead, but they let em race.

They started that phantom debris BS and having a quick trigger with the yellow flag in general when Kasey Kahne looked to be a lock to get his first career win and a another car blew a motor and put oil all over the track, but they didn’t throw a caution, Kahne hit the oil and crashed along with a few other front runners. They overreacted.

But they still need to stop throwing cautions for single car spins at the back of the pack when the car is rolling and not in harms way. And as I said earlier, I’m ok with stages and drivers getting something for running good early on but having an issue late, but there’s no need for a caution at the end of the stage, give out points and keep it going. The two stage breaks easily add an extra 20 minutes to each race

I dont know. Because they are better about it now, doesnt mean they dont tighten up the field for a close finish. I was surprised when Suarez had the blown tire they didnt throw the yellow. In fact I wonder if Denny was out to a huge lead (or any driver already in the chase) if they wouldnt have thrown the yellow. To get an exciting finish or to help get to that 16 teams won threshold they been dying to get too. I watch half spins & not hit anything & the car is already going forward & they still throw a yellow for absolutely no reason, but to bunch the cars back up. Like I said I have no faith in Nascar anymore & their inconsistent rulings every week.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I dont know. Because they are better about it now, doesnt mean they dont tighten up the field for a close finish. I was surprised when Suarez had the blown tire they didnt throw the yellow. In fact I wonder if Denny was out to a huge lead (or any driver already in the chase) if they wouldnt have thrown the yellow. To get an exciting finish or to help get to that 16 teams won threshold they been dying to get too. I watch half spins & not hit anything & the car is already going forward & they still throw a yellow for absolutely no reason, but to bunch the cars back up. Like I said I have no faith in Nascar anymore & their inconsistent rulings every week.

I addressed the no contact spins. That needs to be cleaned up for sure

 

[Y.O.M.]

The chase fabricates close championships. Late unnecessary yellows has fabricated close finishes.
Funny YOM mentions consistency. It was because of drivers being consistent that the chase was created. Instead of a driver earning their Championship, they were created a tournament which is a joke. All because they were trying to replicate the Alan Kulwicki Championship year in & year out. They ruined the sport of "racing" in the name of entertainment. If a team earned the championship with a couple races to go so be it. They "earned" it. Unclimactic or not. we used to watch all the points positions. Is your driver fighting for 6th through 8th spots? Maybe 11th or 12th? Trying to sneak into the top ten? Now it is only about the win. Nascar has made points, irrelevant. Hell you dont have to race all the races & you can be champion. Teams used to race for every point they could gain every single week. Nowadays get a doctors note & fuck it. Take a month off & go win a championship. For 26 weeks. Points dont matter.
Nascar was my favorite sport by far. Now corporate greed has ruined the sport I love. Playoff systems has no place in auto racing. But here it is.

Make no mistake. The Chase for the Chumpionship is a joke to the sport. It is for entertainment value. Not for legitimacy. Nascar has become the WWE of Auto racing. With their fabricated outcomes.

Different types of consistency. You're talking about consistent mediocrity. I'm talking about consistent contention (stage points, stage wins, race wins -- shows the driver was at or near the front of the pack all race). I like the latter form of consistency as opposed to the former, where in the post-race interview the driver quips something about 12th place being a "decent points day".

NASCAR wanted to emphasize winning. A counter to your quoted word salad is this: remember when Kenseth won despite having only won 1 race early in the season. Newman won 6 races that year, Gordon a few, Johnson a few, Stewart a couple. Kenseth was by no means the best driver on the circuit, but he was more consistent (in mediocrity, but limited his bottom finishes/DNF's more than others). It was highly controversial amongst the fan base. Hence - the Chase, and then the Playoffs. NASCAR was stuck in a predicament of differing extremes - either a Kenseth type season, or a 1994 type season where Dale Earnhardt clinched the Title while there were still a couple races left. Neither of those extremes was healthy for the series. Also, 1994 was a laughably bad year in terms of overall competition health. My goodness, look down the list of races from that season. Hilarious the amount of races where drivers in the top 10 were laps down. Heck, Geoff Bodine won a race WHERE HE WAS THE ONLY DRIVER ON THE LEAD LAP. That crap had to stop at some point. Pure garbage.

Corporate greed has taken over EVERY racing series, professional and amateur. It happened a long, long time ago.

I maintain, and I'll die on this hill...the Chase and then the Playoff (you DO realize it hasn't been called the Chase for awhile now, right?) have added legitimacy to NASCAR, not subtracted from it. This is the reality, supported by facts. The drivers agree, the owners agree, and the vast majority of fans agree as well. The sport is moving forward without you "good ol' day" fellas.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Different types of consistency. You're talking about consistent mediocrity. I'm talking about consistent contention (stage points, stage wins, race wins -- shows the driver was at or near the front of the pack all race). I like the latter form of consistency as opposed to the former, where in the post-race interview the driver quips something about 12th place being a "decent points day".

NASCAR wanted to emphasize winning. A counter to your quoted word salad is this: remember when Kenseth won despite having only won 1 race early in the season. Newman won 6 races that year, Gordon a few, Johnson a few, Stewart a couple. Kenseth was by no means the best driver on the circuit, but he was more consistent (in mediocrity, but limited his bottom finishes/DNF's more than others). It was highly controversial amongst the fan base. Hence - the Chase, and then the Playoffs. NASCAR was stuck in a predicament of differing extremes - either a Kenseth type season, or a 1994 type season where Dale Earnhardt clinched the Title while there were still a couple races left. Neither of those extremes was healthy for the series. Also, 1994 was a laughably bad year in terms of overall competition health. My goodness, look down the list of races from that season. Hilarious the amount of races where drivers in the top 10 were laps down. Heck, Geoff Bodine won a race WHERE HE WAS THE ONLY DRIVER ON THE LEAD LAP. That crap had to stop at some point. Pure garbage.

Corporate greed has taken over EVERY racing series, professional and amateur. It happened a long, long time ago.

I maintain, and I'll die on this hill...the Chase and then the Playoff (you DO realize it hasn't been called the Chase for awhile now, right?) have added legitimacy to NASCAR, not subtracted from it. This is the reality, supported by facts. The drivers agree, the owners agree, and the vast majority of fans agree as well. The sport is moving forward without you "good ol' day" fellas.

Bad finishes need to come with a real penalty. Running near the from every week should be rewarded. Checkers or wreckers is exciting and all, but shouldn’t put anyone in line for a title.

As far as the good ole days deal, if you can remember races from the early 90’s, you’re older than me. The Chase/playoffs have been around longer in my life than they weren’t. As a fan of racing in general, it’s common sense that the only championship format any racing league should use is a season long format. I actually like the current points system, just need to use it for a season long championship system and maybe bring back the lap lead and most laps lead bonus points.

Personally, I would like to see a single car owner-driver lap the field.

It makes the whole championship a gimmick, not more legitimate. It’s a bastardized system that the rest of the racing world laughs at, and it is partially why NASCAR’s interest has stagnant at best following a sharp decline. People get tired of gimmicks pretty quickly. Chase Elliott in 2020 and Joey Logano in 2018 being labeled “champions” is joke.

 

[Y.O.M.]

Bad finishes need to come with a real penalty. Running near the from every week should be rewarded. Checkers or wreckers is exciting and all, but shouldn’t put anyone in line for a title.

As far as the good ole days deal, if you can remember races from the early 90’s, you’re older than me. The Chase/playoffs have been around longer in my life than they weren’t. As a fan of racing in general, it’s common sense that the only championship format any racing league should use is a season long format. I actually like the current points system, just need to use it for a season long championship system and maybe bring back the lap lead and most laps lead bonus points.

Personally, I would like to see a single car owner-driver lap the field.

It makes the whole championship a gimmick, not more legitimate. It’s a bastardized system that the rest of the racing world laughs at, and it is partially why NASCAR’s interest has stagnant at best following a sharp decline. People get tired of gimmicks pretty quickly. Chase Elliott in 2020 and Joey Logano in 2018 being labeled “champions” is joke.

Stagnant?

I'd be careful saying that unless you've been looking at the ratings and attendance numbers. It's anything but stagnant. It's not 1998. But it's damn sure not stagnant.

And yeah, I'm probably older than you. But I doubt it's by much.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Stagnant?

I'd be careful saying that unless you've been looking at the ratings and attendance numbers. It's anything but stagnant. It's not 1998. But it's damn sure not stagnant.

And yeah, I'm probably older than you. But I doubt it's by much.

There was a sharp decline from the 2007 peak, and then leveled off. There’s been a slight uptick this season, but we’ll have to see if it keeps going. I hope it explodes in popularity again, I genuinely love the sport even if I hate how they determine a champion.

I’m a 91 model. Have loved NASCAR for as long as I can remember and I have a good memory

 

[Y.O.M.]

There was a sharp decline from the 2007 peak, and then leveled off. There’s been a slight uptick this season, but we’ll have to see if it keeps going. I hope it explodes in popularity again, I genuinely love the sport even if I hate how they determine a champion.

I’m a 91 model. Have loved NASCAR for as long as I can remember and I have a good memory

Ok I'm a bit more older than you than I expected.

Either way, doesn't matter much in the discussion. Points all remain, on both sides. I think we pretty much have to agree to disagree on the Playoff. I think it's great. You prefer the season points method. They're drastically different models, with very little middle ground. I just very clearly remember being really bored watching so many of those races when 3/4 of the field had no prayer, was laps down, and come October you were beyond lucky if it was a 2 or 3 dog hunt. Sometimes it wasn't even that. It just lacked intrigue. The great drivers/teams (the few of them) were going to win, there were few surprises, very little intrigue, not a lot of drama/excitement, and the only difference was the drivers were "tougher" or "manlier" then than they are now, but that's society as a whole. Sub cultures catch up with the primary culture every time.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Ok I'm a bit more older than you than I expected.

Either way, doesn't matter much in the discussion. Points all remain, on both sides. I think we pretty much have to agree to disagree on the Playoff. I think it's great. You prefer the season points method. They're drastically different models, with very little middle ground. I just very clearly remember being really bored watching so many of those races when 3/4 of the field had no prayer, was laps down, and come October you were beyond lucky if it was a 2 or 3 dog hunt. Sometimes it wasn't even that. It just lacked intrigue. The great drivers/teams (the few of them) were going to win, there were few surprises, very little intrigue, not a lot of drama/excitement, and the only difference was the drivers were "tougher" or "manlier" then than they are now, but that's society as a whole. Sub cultures catch up with the primary culture every time.

Fair enough. I’ll never agree the playoffs are good thing though. When you’re the only major series in the world that doesn’t have a full season championship format, it’s not everyone else that’s wrong.

Domination might not be as exciting, but it is impressive and the 90’s had several small teams winnings races. RCR was a one car operation for most of the decade, and it wasn’t until the final race of the 2001 season when an RCR car other than the 3/29 won a race. Teams are bigger now than they were back then. It was very unusual for a car owner to field more than 2 cars for a full season, really, Hendrick and Roush were the only ones to do it, and even for them, they had a couple top cars and the others suffered like the 25 for Hendrick and the 26, 16 and 97 for Roush.

There hasn’t been a driver lap the field since 1994. There hasn’t been a driver lead every lap in a race since 2000.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

the Chase isnt about consistency. It is about who gets hot at the right time. Making most of the races in a season irrelevant.
Then in the finale, who in the final 4 is the best at that one track. A complete bonehead way to crown a Champion.
You want excitement instead of a Champion who earned the Championship. Make a plate race the final race of the season. Makes as much sense as the bullshit they do nowadays.

I am now waiting on two things after rulings from this year.

A. What will nascar do if one contender dumps the other contender for the Championship on the last lap. (just racing right)

B. If the car after the race is found to be illegal like the Gibbs cars were, will the Championship be stripped from them?

Things you wouldnt have to worry about if you didnt make a whole season about one single race.

Anytime you reset points to make a tighter championship. It is a failed product. (& fake)

 

[Jeep]

This guy is turning into a fucking diva

Bubba Wallace's NASCAR Team Asks Him to Stop After his Radio Meltdown: "Absolute F**king Failure"

After finishing second to race winner Kevin Harvick, 23XI Racing driver Bubba Wallace was quite gutted, but his team was very encouraging.

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

This guy is turning into a fucking diva

Bubba Wallace's NASCAR Team Asks Him to Stop After his Radio Meltdown: "Absolute F**king Failure"

After finishing second to race winner Kevin Harvick, 23XI Racing driver Bubba Wallace was quite gutted, but his team was very encouraging.

www.essentiallysports.com

TBH, that was probably his best ever performance at a non plate track in the Cup series and he finished it off with a second place finish. There was nothing to cry about there, but he's Bubba Wallace, so he's gonna cry about something.

 

[Grant Ward]

Gragson officially to the 42 for 2023. Hopefully this brings Bass Pro on board which means more $$$ for the 43 as well.

 

[wildturkey]

Gragson officially to the 42 for 2023. Hopefully this brings Bass Pro on board which means more $$$ for the 43 as well.

There's a long standing sentiment that if you're a young driver and a Cup ride opens up, you should take the opportunity. Maybe he made the right move going ahead and taking this ride. But with Kurt Busch's ongoing concussion issue, its growing increasingly likely he might be done. That could open up the 45, which is a better ride. Now maybe Reddick gets out of his RCR deal earlier than planned and goes to the 45, but then that opens up the 8, which is a better ride as well. Wouldn't be totally shocked if Harvick hung it up at the end of the year either, though the 10 is available so if he didn't get that, SHR/Ford might not be interested in him. Hell, Kyle Busch isn't even signed yet so the 18 might even be open (I'd bet they hotshot Ty). Point is, I think he could have waited at least another month to see what shakes out. GMS is an ok team and miles better than just Petty but I would think there's more options on the table to choose from if you just wait a little bit.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

There's a long standing sentiment that if you're a young driver and a Cup ride opens up, you should take the opportunity. Maybe he made the right move going ahead and taking this ride. But with Kurt Busch's ongoing concussion issue, its growing increasingly likely he might be done. That could open up the 45, which is a better ride. Now maybe Reddick gets out of his RCR deal earlier than planned and goes to the 45, but then that opens up the 8, which is a better ride as well. Wouldn't be totally shocked if Harvick hung it up at the end of the year either, though the 10 is available so if he didn't get that, SHR/Ford might not be interested in him. Hell, Kyle Busch isn't even signed yet so the 18 might even be open (I'd bet they hotshot Ty). Point is, I think he could have waited at least another month to see what shakes out. GMS is an ok team and miles better than just Petty but I would think there's more options on the table to choose from if you just wait a little bit.

I don’t really see Gragson as an elite talent, and I’m not sure he’d be a candidate for any of those rides.

Reddick is staying at RCR for 2023, and with all the lawsuits going around in the rest of the racing world, I doubt either side is gonna budge on that.

Gragson has gotten in fist fights with two Gibbs drivers, I’m not sure if Toyota would have him.

If Kyle Busch is out at Roush, he’s likely to end up at SHR, and Ty Gibbs would get the open Gibbs seat.

GMS is a first year team. Look at Trackhouse in year two and GMS has been one of the top Truck teams of the last 10 years, they plan on being a winning team in the Cup Series.

Not a bad move at all IMO. Erik Jones is ahead of like 5 guys locked into the Chase in points. Ty Dillon just sucks

 

[Y.O.M.]

the Chase isnt about consistency. It is about who gets hot at the right time. Making most of the races in a season irrelevant.
Then in the finale, who in the final 4 is the best at that one track. A complete bonehead way to crown a Champion.
You want excitement instead of a Champion who earned the Championship. Make a plate race the final race of the season. Makes as much sense as the bullshit they do nowadays.

I am now waiting on two things after rulings from this year.

A. What will nascar do if one contender dumps the other contender for the Championship on the last lap. (just racing right)

B. If the car after the race is found to be illegal like the Gibbs cars were, will the Championship be stripped from them?

Things you wouldnt have to worry about if you didnt make a whole season about one single race.

Anytime you reset points to make a tighter championship. It is a failed product. (& fake)

I mean, the bolded pretty much defines every other professional sports league as well. I get it, motorsports/racing isn't like other pro sports - BUT, if NASCAR wants to attract more than just the motorhead diehards (hint: they do), then having a format that appeals to the fans who want to see a modern playoff approach to determining a champion is prudent.

A. - NASCAR has already made it pretty clear to drivers that aggressive and irrational driving that leads to the intentional "taking out" of a championship contender, even if its from another contender, would be dealt with harshly. What that means, we don't entirely know because it hasn't exactly been tested out since Kenseth went LEEEERRRRRRROY JENKINS on Logano.

B. - NASCAR would absolutely strip the Championship, and it would be a damn tragedy and a stain on the sport. So, how about the teams stop cheating and putting NASCAR in that position. That'd be great, mmkay?

 

[Y.O.M.]

There's a long standing sentiment that if you're a young driver and a Cup ride opens up, you should take the opportunity. Maybe he made the right move going ahead and taking this ride. But with Kurt Busch's ongoing concussion issue, its growing increasingly likely he might be done. That could open up the 45, which is a better ride. Now maybe Reddick gets out of his RCR deal earlier than planned and goes to the 45, but then that opens up the 8, which is a better ride as well. Wouldn't be totally shocked if Harvick hung it up at the end of the year either, though the 10 is available so if he didn't get that, SHR/Ford might not be interested in him. Hell, Kyle Busch isn't even signed yet so the 18 might even be open (I'd bet they hotshot Ty). Point is, I think he could have waited at least another month to see what shakes out. GMS is an ok team and miles better than just Petty but I would think there's more options on the table to choose from if you just wait a little bit.

Gibbs/Toyota has a long line of development drivers waiting their turn for some of these rides. The 18/45, etc will go to those drivers, almost guaranteed NOT to outside talent. Gragson had no chance at either, so the 42 makes a ton of sense for him. I think he's a gigantic tool and i don't necessarily root for his success, but for a full time cup ride, that was definitely his best option and he'd have been a fool to not go for it.

 

[Y.O.M.]

I don’t really see Gragson as an elite talent, and I’m not sure he’d be a candidate for any of those rides.

Reddick is staying at RCR for 2023, and with all the lawsuits going around in the rest of the racing world, I doubt either side is gonna budge on that.

Gragson has gotten in fist fights with two Gibbs drivers, I’m not sure if Toyota would have him.

If Kyle Busch is out at Roush, he’s likely to end up at SHR, and Ty Gibbs would get the open Gibbs seat.

GMS is a first year team. Look at Trackhouse in year two and GMS has been one of the top Truck teams of the last 10 years, they plan on being a winning team in the Cup Series.

Not a bad move at all IMO. Erik Jones is ahead of like 5 guys locked into the Chase in points. Ty Dillon just sucks

Both Ty and Austin suck. Worst decision Richard Childress ever made was putting so many eggs into the Austin basket. When RCR gives Austin a DYNAMITE car, he can sometimes stumble it into victory lane. And RCR has lost quality top tier drivers because Austin is such a dick and a PITA.

It's unfortunate, but RCR is irrelevant because of the favor he showed his grandsons.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I mean, the bolded pretty much defines every other professional sports league as well. I get it, motorsports/racing isn't like other pro sports - BUT, if NASCAR wants to attract more than just the motorhead diehards (hint: they do), then having a format that appeals to the fans who want to see a modern playoff approach to determining a champion is prudent.

A. - NASCAR has already made it pretty clear to drivers that aggressive and irrational driving that leads to the intentional "taking out" of a championship contender, even if its from another contender, would be dealt with harshly. What that means, we don't entirely know because it hasn't exactly been tested out since Kenseth went LEEEERRRRRRROY JENKINS on Logano.

B. - NASCAR would absolutely strip the Championship, and it would be a damn tragedy and a stain on the sport. So, how about the teams stop cheating and putting NASCAR in that position. That'd be great, mmkay?

NASCAR cracking down on cheating is pissing on it’s own legacy. Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick are legends.

NASCAR will do what they’ve been doing since their 2007 popularity peak. They’ll try and fail to attract a new audience and run off the audience they already have. A gimmick championship format is a good way to piss off the diehard and attract few if any casuals.