AL Central Talk

[DragonFromTo]

Given there was talk of trading Rosario this off season I figures Gimenez would be a natural SS. But I really like Rosario and hope they lock him up too

I was disappointed that Rosario was left off of the DR team for the WBC because I thought if he got a little time at 2B he might be more comfortable there and flipping him with Gimenez on the Guardians might become an option. Gimenez is going to be good/comfortable at either position of course and I think this is part of why they are arranged the way that they are right now.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Karinchak is going to be completely worthless with the pitch clock.

I can't think of a more easily rattled pitcher. Once something goes mildly out of order he just completely melts down. Having to constantly think about a pitch clock he's going to be a mess.

 

[osubuckeye89]

GuardIndians take 3/4 in Seattle. Good start

 

[DragonFromTo]

Arias makes the final out for the Guardians in an extra inning game with Gimenez on deck waiting to bat.

But they won the game so no one in the media will even notice, let alone say anything. Tito would hate me if I had a press pass, I am not giving this up

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Arias makes the final out for the Guardians in an extra inning game with Gimenez on deck waiting to bat.

But they won the game so no one in the media will even notice, let alone say anything. Tito would hate me if I had a press pass, I am not giving this up

How many WS rings do you have again?

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Karinchak is going to be completely worthless with the pitch clock.

I can't think of a more easily rattled pitcher. Once something goes mildly out of order he just completely melts down. Having to constantly think about a pitch clock he's going to be a mess.

Admittedly, he is very frustrating to watch even under normal circumstances but I think he will figure it out. He looked pretty good Saturday

 

[osubuckeye89]

Think rotation depth is going to be a problem until some of our better prospects are ready. Gotta stay healthy.

Plesac hasn't been very good since 2020 and last night doesn't give me much hope for him.

 

[DragonFromTo]

How many WS rings do you have again?

I'm certain that Tito knows more about baseball than I do and is correct about many baseball related things that I am incorrect about, much more so than vice versa. But that does not mean/guarantee that he is not wrong about this.

 

[PeoplesChicken]

I'm certain that Tito knows more about baseball than I do and is correct about many baseball related things that I am incorrect about, much more so than vice versa. But that does not mean/guarantee that he is not wrong about this.

Very nice response. In terms of what I really meant to say is I think managers, especially with younger rosters, may tempt the data to see how a player responds in a situation. More so early on.

 

[DragonFromTo]

Very nice response. In terms of what I really meant to say is I think managers, especially with younger rosters, may tempt the data to see how a player responds in a situation. More so early on.

Can you find another top 10 MVP finisher whose manager batted him so low? I was trying to think of one. Even Ozzie Smith batted 2nd in his big season. There may be a random catcher.

No one would ever say "Well, where is the best place to bat this guy with the .371 OBP? At the bottom of the order, to set up Zunino and Straw". And yet every night the batting order implicitly argues this.

Who is the young player being tested for their situational response that you are talking about here, Gimenez?

 

[DragonFromTo]

I think that I basically look at the Guardians roster and think "They have two players who broke out last season and had almost identical BAs and OBPs. The guy who slugged worse bats leadoff and always has while the other guy bats in the bottom third/half and always has" and it breaks my brain

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think that I basically look at the Guardians roster and think "They have two players who broke out last season and had almost identical BAs and OBPs. The guy who slugged worse bats leadoff and always has while the other guy bats in the bottom third/half and always has" and it breaks my brain

If it works, don't fix it. He was 6th last night.

It's not like they haven't tried tons of lineups for the past two years. I do remember Gimenez at the top of the order plenty times last year and then Rosario took that spot over...so obviously there are reasons the lineup is set this certain way. Kwan is at the 1 spot for too many obvious reasons. Rosario is a good hitter that seems comfortable in the 2 spot. Then you have your power hitters-Ramirez, Bell and Naylor. Maybe he can slide to a permanent 6 spot? He was there last night. Gimenez seems to get plenty of opportunities to drive in runs at that spot regardless.

 

[DragonFromTo]

If it works, don't fix it. He was 6th last night.

It's not like they haven't tried tons of lineups for the past two years. I do remember Gimenez at the top of the order plenty times last year and then Rosario took that spot over...so obviously there are reasons the lineup is set this certain way. Kwan is at the 1 spot for too many obvious reasons. Rosario is a good hitter that seems comfortable in the 2 spot. Then you have your power hitters-Ramirez, Bell and Naylor. Maybe he can slide to a permanent 6 spot? He was there last night. Gimenez seems to get plenty of opportunities to drive in runs at that spot regardless.

That's the thing though, why do you think "it works"? It's certainly possible for a team to win a decent amount of the time while still leaving runs and wins on the table, no? The team was 6th in the AL in runs last season but there is no room for improvement?

Last season Gimenez batted in spots 1 through 4 a total of 6 times and not more than twice in the same spot.

Last season Rosario was driven in 37.9% of the time that he ran on the bases (I didn't know what to call Hits + BB + HBP - HR). For Gimenez the rate was just 26.1%. When a guy on your roster puts up a .371 OBP over 146 games and only scores 66 times I have got to think that you are not batting him in a very good position.

Last season #6 batters got about 65 fewer PAs than #2 batters over a full schedule, so it's not just the protection that would have an effect as well.

 

[broncosmitty]

Can you find another top 10 MVP finisher whose manager batted him so low? I was trying to think of one. Even Ozzie Smith batted 2nd in his big season. There may be a random catcher.

No one would ever say "Well, where is the best place to bat this guy with the .371 OBP? At the bottom of the order, to set up Zunino and Straw". And yet every night the batting order implicitly argues this.

Who is the young player being tested for their situational response that you are talking about here, Gimenez?

Michael Harris was only 13th in voting last year as a rookie. But he still hits at the bottom of the order.

Brooks Robinson in the 70’s hit in the bottom third a lot. Had some high finishes in voting.

Bill Freehan usually hit 6th in 68.

All I’ve got off the top of my head.

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Can you find another top 10 MVP finisher whose manager batted him so low? I was trying to think of one. Even Ozzie Smith batted 2nd in his big season. There may be a random catcher.

No one would ever say "Well, where is the best place to bat this guy with the .371 OBP? At the bottom of the order, to set up Zunino and Straw". And yet every night the batting order implicitly argues this.

Who is the young player being tested for their situational response that you are talking about here, Gimenez?

I was referring to Arias or however its spelled

 

[DragonFromTo]

Michael Harris was only 13th in voting last year as a rookie. But he still hits at the bottom of the order.

Brooks Robinson in the 70’s hit in the bottom third a lot. Had some high finishes in voting.

Bill Freehan usually hit 6th in 68.

All I’ve got off the top of my head.

There was only one season in his long career where Brooks had an OPS+ higher than the one Andres Gimenez put up last year. But I was still curious so I took a look.

In 1960 he finished 3rd in the voting and batted 5th (34.7%), 3rd (28.7%) and 6th (22.9%) most often. He had 35.3% of his 651 PAs in a spot lower than 5th.

In 1962 he finished 9th and batted 3rd most frequently (52.2% of the time). He batted in a spot lower than 5th 22.1% of the time.

In 1964 he won it and batted 5th and 4th almost exclusively, almost two to one. He batted lower than 5th just 7.7% of the time.

In 1965 he finished 3rd and batted cleanup for 604 out of 616 of his PAs.

1966 was the same as 1965, he finished 2nd but he batted cleanup 670 out of 686 PAs.

1970 we finally sorta maybe have something. He finished 7th in the voting and batted 6th 63.6% of the time. But he also never once batted lower than 6th in that season, always higher.

1971 was the last season he finished in the top 10. He batted 6th (41.3%), 5th (29.7%) and cleanup (16.4%)


For his career he batted in a spot lower than 6th 2,083 times, just 17.7% of his PAs.

 

[DragonFromTo]

I was referring to Arias or however its spelled

Why can't Arias just bat higher at someone else's expense then? You can bat them both higher and still evaluate Arias.

Consistently batting a guy with a .371 OBP in front of the out machines that have been the catcher and Straw makes no sense. I don't see why he can't give Arias a chance and stop doing that at the same time.

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Why can't Arias just bat higher at someone else's expense then? You can bat them both higher and still evaluate Arias.

Consistently batting a guy with a .371 OBP in front of the out machines that have been the catcher and Straw makes no sense. I don't see why he can't give Arias a chance and stop doing that at the same time.

You make valid points. I guess my original comment about testing players is really more of just a theory

 

[DragonFromTo]

You make valid points. I guess my original comment about testing players is really more of just a theory

I think that most people who question it in their head like I do just figure that it's not a hill worth dying on. Part of the reason that I care is that I don't believe that Francona can't be convinced if it's put to him the right way by the right person.

I can easily see what the reasoning is even if I don't think it's convincing. He wants to bat Ramirez 3rd and Kwan 1st and he doesn't want to bat lefties back to back. And in the middle of the order guys like Gonzalez and Naylor look more the part.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Karinchak blows it again.