Clemson Joins FSU in Suing the ACC To Get Out of Media Rights

Wild Turkey said:
Dude Clemson is a much higher rated institution of higher leaning than FSU.
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Fill me in on what “higher leaning” is.

Or are you really trying to say Clemson ranks higher then FSU on the higher learning scale?
 
Wild Turkey said:
Dude Clemson is a much higher rated institution of higher leaning than FSU.
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Yeah, I don't think you have been keeping up with current events. FSU has flown up the college rankings.

USNews:
UGA - 47
FSU - 53
Clemson - 86

FSU was in the hundreds just a few years ago. We toured the campus for my youngest. The on-campus area was beautiful, and they have a great film school. I did not like the Greek system or the off-campus area at all.

But FSU is no longer the shitty school we thought it was in the past.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
They are both really good state schools.
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I don’t doubt you. From my experience the “reputations” of universities are usually very skewed both directions. Those that are perceived as poor academic schools ain’t that bad. And those considered “elite academic” schools aimed that good.

I had ex students attend Ivy League schools and others considered as such. They told me on more than one occasion that there were several students in those universities that were worse than some of their high school classmates.
 
Deep Creek said:
I don’t doubt you. From my experience the “reputations” of universities are usually very skewed both directions. Those that are perceived as poor academic schools ain’t that bad. And those considered “elite academic” schools aimed that good.

I had ex students attend Ivy League schools and others considered as such. They told me on more than one occasion that there were several students in those universities that were worse than some of their high school classmates.
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I agree with this. You can get as good an education at a mid state school than you can a top school, but you have to work harder to make it happen.

I also think college is just credentialing these days. You do it because you have to. And the socialization aspect of it is just as important as anything you learn. Plus networking.
 
CoalTrain said:
rutgerswire.usatoday.com

Conference realignment and expansion: If the ACC folds, what programs are most likely to end up in the Big Ten?

A look at six ACC programs that could be in line to join the Big Ten.
rutgerswire.usatoday.com rutgerswire.usatoday.com
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I read that article. Totally ignorant. I mean cringe-worthy bullshit.

"Their top preferred destinations? The Big Ten and the SEC."

No shit, Sherlock. The question isn't whether people want to get into the P2 but whether they have the value to be allowed into the SEC and B1G.

Now, a few things to consider while considering conference expansion candidates for the Big Ten from the ACC:
  • AAU membership has historically mattered to the Big Ten
This is true for the B1G, not the SEC. AAU - Miami, Duke, UNC, UVa, Miami. I think that's it.
  • Media markets matter. The Big Ten is accumulating markets for the next round of media rights negotiations.
Yeah, no they don't. Only a moron writing for the Rutgers Wire would think that. Everyone knows that isn't true. They literally just picked up Oregon and Washington, which are not exactly booming markets. And the media market value drops every year.
  • National brands and fan bases matter to the Big Ten to enhance these media rights
Again, thanks, Captain Obvious. They matter to the SEC, too. Uh, Texas and Oklahoma, anyone?
  • Redundancy of market. Outside adding USC and UCLA, which were a package deal, the Big Ten has avoided adding schools from the same market(s). That means ACC program Pittsburgh, while in a top 20 national market, wouldn’t be a candidate because Penn State already provides that market.
Finally, something that might actually be true. Except Pitt isn't a candidate because they suck, not because they are in a redundant market. A better example is that Clemson and FSU are in markets the SEC already has. But, again, market isn't driving the bus here.

Pointing out how stupid the writer is isn't difficult, but she tees this up for us about Clemson:

If the Big Ten is looking to add two more programs, Clemson is probably out (not a big enough media market). But if the Big Ten is looking to get to 22 or even 24 programs, then Clemson is in a very good spot. What works against it? It isn’t an AAU member. But if it is willing to become a member, Clemson could greatly enhance its resume for the Big Ten.

First, not being a big enough media market doesn't matter. They are a way bigger national brand and their TV viewership - what really matters - is better than anyone other than FSU and ND. And, she's wrong - Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson is the #36th largest TV market which is pretty good, if it mattered.

Second, she actually says, "is willing to become a member [of the AAU]" as if that is something one decides they want to become and viola, you re in. It's one of the most exclusive organizations in the US for academia, and you don't just decide you want in. You have to have all sorts of requirements that takes decades to accomplish, if you can. For example, UGA has been held out of the AAU for years because they don't have a medical school in Athens. They are about to open one, and it has taken 30 years of politicking and hundreds of millions of dollars to pull off. Even then, there is no guarantee of AAU membership.

Duke - she writes this whopper: "With conference expansion being all about media markets first and foremost, Duke is in a good spot. It gets great television numbers and have a loyal fan base." LOL, it's not about media markets, and Duke's TV numbers are horrible. The only one worse in the P2 would be Vandy.

FSU - There is also the potential to get the Big Ten Network into the northern half of the state. The Big Ten higher-ups would like that. The BTN is already in the entirety of Florida. Now, they might get more money per subscriber, but she doesn't know that.

GaTech - Georgia Tech would bring a growing Atlanta market, and if the Big Ten wants to expand into Florida, would provide a geographic foothold into the region. Yeah, Georgia Tech, the gateway to Florida. You know, all those Nerd almums that live in Florida - there's dozens of them.

Miami - "In fact, Miami’s football following is probably top-five in terms of a national brand." JFC, in what world is Miami a top-five national brand - at least since the 80s and 90s.

UVa - And while football isn’t a powerhouse, it can be argued that Virginia is a stronger program than Rutgers (and possibly Maryland) was when they entered the Big Ten in 2014. It's like she has no idea that what drives CFB economics today is different than what drove the B1G to pick up Rutgers in 2012-ish.

What a maroon. And, exactly why did you post this wonderful article?

It's funny, I read this article the other day and almost posted it and ripped it. But, it was so stupid I decided no one would even read it or post it here. And, yet, here we are.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I read that article. Totally ignorant. I mean cringe-worthy bullshit.

"Their top preferred destinations? The Big Ten and the SEC."

No shit, Sherlock. The question isn't whether people want to get into the P2 but whether they have the value to be allowed into the SEC and B1G.

Now, a few things to consider while considering conference expansion candidates for the Big Ten from the ACC:
  • AAU membership has historically mattered to the Big Ten
This is true for the B1G, not the SEC. AAU - Miami, Duke, UNC, UVa, Miami. I think that's it.
  • Media markets matter. The Big Ten is accumulating markets for the next round of media rights negotiations.
Yeah, no they don't. Only a moron writing for the Rutgers Wire would think that. Everyone knows that isn't true. They literally just picked up Oregon and Washington, which are not exactly booming markets. And the media market value drops every year.
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i mean seattle is a top 15 and portland is top 25.
 
OlyDuck said:
i mean seattle is a top 15 and portland is top 25.
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Greenville is 36, which was my point.

Moreover, LA brings the B1G about $16 million per year and it's number 2.

It just doesn't matter. The BTN is already available in the Clemson footprint, the only difference would be that they would get an enhanced rate.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I read that article. Totally ignorant. I mean cringe-worthy bullshit.

"Their top preferred destinations? The Big Ten and the SEC."

No shit, Sherlock. The question isn't whether people want to get into the P2 but whether they have the value to be allowed into the SEC and B1G.

Now, a few things to consider while considering conference expansion candidates for the Big Ten from the ACC:
  • AAU membership has historically mattered to the Big Ten
This is true for the B1G, not the SEC. AAU - Miami, Duke, UNC, UVa, Miami. I think that's it.
  • Media markets matter. The Big Ten is accumulating markets for the next round of media rights negotiations.
Yeah, no they don't. Only a moron writing for the Rutgers Wire would think that. Everyone knows that isn't true. They literally just picked up Oregon and Washington, which are not exactly booming markets. And the media market value drops every year.
  • National brands and fan bases matter to the Big Ten to enhance these media rights
Again, thanks, Captain Obvious. They matter to the SEC, too. Uh, Texas and Oklahoma, anyone?
  • Redundancy of market. Outside adding USC and UCLA, which were a package deal, the Big Ten has avoided adding schools from the same market(s). That means ACC program Pittsburgh, while in a top 20 national market, wouldn’t be a candidate because Penn State already provides that market.
Finally, something that might actually be true. Except Pitt isn't a candidate because they suck, not because they are in a redundant market. A better example is that Clemson and FSU are in markets the SEC already has. But, again, market isn't driving the bus here.

Pointing out how stupid the writer is isn't difficult, but she tees this up for us about Clemson:

If the Big Ten is looking to add two more programs, Clemson is probably out (not a big enough media market). But if the Big Ten is looking to get to 22 or even 24 programs, then Clemson is in a very good spot. What works against it? It isn’t an AAU member. But if it is willing to become a member, Clemson could greatly enhance its resume for the Big Ten.

First, not being a big enough media market doesn't matter. They are a way bigger national brand and their TV viewership - what really matters - is better than anyone other than FSU and ND. And, she's wrong - Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson is the #36th largest TV market which is pretty good, if it mattered.

Second, she actually says, "is willing to become a member [of the AAU]" as if that is something one decides they want to become and viola, you re in. It's one of the most exclusive organizations in the US for academia, and you don't just decide you want in. You have to have all sorts of requirements that takes decades to accomplish, if you can. For example, UGA has been held out of the AAU for years because they don't have a medical school in Athens. They are about to open one, and it has taken 30 years of politicking and hundreds of millions of dollars to pull off. Even then, there is no guarantee of AAU membership.

Duke - she writes this whopper: "With conference expansion being all about media markets first and foremost, Duke is in a good spot. It gets great television numbers and have a loyal fan base." LOL, it's not about media markets, and Duke's TV numbers are horrible. The only one worse in the P2 would be Vandy.

FSU - There is also the potential to get the Big Ten Network into the northern half of the state. The Big Ten higher-ups would like that. The BTN is already in the entirety of Florida. Now, they might get more money per subscriber, but she doesn't know that.

GaTech - Georgia Tech would bring a growing Atlanta market, and if the Big Ten wants to expand into Florida, would provide a geographic foothold into the region. Yeah, Georgia Tech, the gateway to Florida. You know, all those Nerd almums that live in Florida - there's dozens of them.

Miami - "In fact, Miami’s football following is probably top-five in terms of a national brand." JFC, in what world is Miami a top-five national brand - at least since the 80s and 90s.

UVa - And while football isn’t a powerhouse, it can be argued that Virginia is a stronger program than Rutgers (and possibly Maryland) was when they entered the Big Ten in 2014. It's like she has no idea that what drives CFB economics today is different than what drove the B1G to pick up Rutgers in 2012-ish.

What a maroon. And, exactly why did you post this wonderful article?

It's funny, I read this article the other day and almost posted it and ripped it. But, it was so stupid I decided no one would even read it or post it here. And, yet, here we are.
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I’ve stopped reading these. They all say the same stuff and full of conventional wisdom that is anything but wisdom.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
This one was so ridiculously stupid that I felt compelled to write about it.
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My go-to favorite Auburn site has after 15 years started updating only sporadically (evidently it was one guy and he updated twice a day no days off for like 15 years so I'm shocked it lasted this long because fuck that!) so I went looking for some alternatives that weren't pay sites and OMG the crap that is out there.

I found this one and at first I was ok this looks promising: Fly War Eagle - An Auburn Tigers Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

Pure 80% made up crap to the point it's like those jackasses don't even follow sports. I guess at some point I'm going to have to pony and do the pay sites to get anything of quality. I had a satisfactory run though.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Clemson and FSU leaving is not as bad as OU and TX leaving. FSU has been down for years ... their TV numbers were not good until last year. And Clemson has been down the last few years due to Dabo's stubbornness. All that said, it will impact the value of the ACC, and if FSU and Clemson get out then others may follow.

Dennis Dodd wrote an article today that really hit on the idea that he isn't overly confident that FSU and Clemson have landing spots. it was an interesting read. I'll see if I can find it.

www.cbssports.com

And then what? Plans for Florida State, Clemson remain unclear if rivals successfully exit ACC

The two ACC giants are exploring an exit from the league, but what could happen afterwards remains a mystery
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
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Insiders do not believe adding Florida State to one of those conferences makes much sense, financially, despite the program's strong brand. The Seminoles, by themselves, are not worth messing with the $60 million being handed out in revenue to SEC schools nor the $75 million getting paid out to Big Ten institutions.
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This is based off of what exactly?

If Clem/FSU is not worth handing out $60 mil / $75 mil then neither is OU/Tex, USC/UCLA or Ore/Wash ....
 
Wild Turkey said:
I'll own that I missed this one but in my defense FSU has caught up quick because they were not that high about 6 years ago when we were looking at schools. The Hope scholarship has been good to FSU.

That being said Clemson is an exceptional school and honestly more selective than a lot of AAU members at this point.
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I first thought FSU wasn’t a horrible academic school when Myron Rolle picked them because of academics and their medical program. That’s when I first thought of them as giving a good education. And that was back in 06.

Im not saying Clemson is a bad academic school. But there were rumors this past season that B1G presidents said no to FSU until they gained AAU membership. It’s truly why I believe Clemson doesn’t have a prayer at B1G membership. Yeah the B1G would likely make exceptions for a certain school (ND). Don’t see it happening for anyone else.
 
ralphiewvu said:
But there were rumors this past season that B1G presidents said no to FSU until they gained AAU membership. It’s truly why I believe Clemson doesn’t have a prayer at B1G membership. Yeah the B1G would likely make exceptions for a certain school (ND). Don’t see it happening for anyone else.
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No exception needed... Notre Dame is an AAU member.


I wish we would get things over and just kill the ACC already...

The SEC could get the ball rolling by increasing to 20 members by adding: Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina, and Virginia.

Then the Big XII increases to 22 members by adding: North Carolina State, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Pitt.

Once those above 10 schools leave the ACC, Notre Dame realizes it's finally time to kiss independence goodbye... So the B1G increases to 20 members by adding Notre Dame and whomever the Irish desire as a partner, probably Stanford.

Then the 6 remaining ACC schools: Syracuse, Boston College, Duke, Wake Forest, Cal, SMU increase to 18 members by adding a bunch of programs such as: USF, Tulane, Memphis, UConn, Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Colorado State, UNLV, UTSA... and perhaps increase to 20 members by getting into Houston & Atlanta with the additions of Rice and Georgia State... heck, get into Virgina & Philly too by also adding Liberty and Temple. They could call this newly refurbished 22 member conference the PACC.

Then with a 14 team playoff, the SEC, B1G, Big XXII, and PACC each receive an auto bid for its conference champ, with 10 at large playoff spots.

The Group of 5 conferences have their own playoff.

Do all the above and then perhaps we would finally see an end to all the realignment madness.
 
Wild Turkey said:
My go-to favorite Auburn site has after 15 years started updating only sporadically (evidently it was one guy and he updated twice a day no days off for like 15 years so I'm shocked it lasted this long because fuck that!) so I went looking for some alternatives that weren't pay sites and OMG the crap that is out there.

I found this one and at first I was ok this looks promising: Fly War Eagle - An Auburn Tigers Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

Pure 80% made up crap to the point it's like those jackasses don't even follow sports. I guess at some point I'm going to have to pony and do the pay sites to get anything of quality. I had a satisfactory run though.
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UGA fans had a site called Get the Picture - an old Munson saying - but the lawyer who ran it died a couple months ago. It was a great blog that ran for about 17 years. Going to miss that site. His blog was an aggregator of all UAG sites with his opinions.

blutarsky.wordpress.com

Get The Picture

Bloviation for the Dawgnation
blutarsky.wordpress.com blutarsky.wordpress.com
 
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