Well they should be. Gotta overpay nowadays to be in the cool kid club.
Michigan sub .500 team
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Half of JH's losses are to OSU and in meaningless bowl games. Two of those instances have directly lead to the bowl game being meaningless by virtue of losing to OSU, so that's definitely a sting against him.
Against the other top 4 programs in the league(Wisconsin, PSU, Iowa and Michigan State) he's 9-7. So in other words add OSU and he's 9-12. That's a winning percentage of 43%. I'd be curious what the winning percentage is of each of those teams vs those teams, taking themselves out of the equation.
I did Wisconsin as an example and they won 47% of their games against that. And they are 0-4 against OSU. My guess is Michigan is probably better than Iowa, Michigan State and PSU during that time frame, but I could be wrong.
Everyone in the league has an OSU problem. JH has Michigan as a top 10 program since he got there. Michigan was a fringe top 25 program when he took over(probably being a little generous) and now they are firmly a top 15/10 program regularly under him.
We shouldn't be comparing Michigan to OSU because they aren't OSU. They aren't close to OSU in this century or even in the modern era. He's stabilized the program after their worst two coaching in the history. He's done a very good job, just not an elite job.
Against the other top 4 programs in the league(Wisconsin, PSU, Iowa and Michigan State) he's 9-7. So in other words add OSU and he's 9-12. That's a winning percentage of 43%. I'd be curious what the winning percentage is of each of those teams vs those teams, taking themselves out of the equation.
I did Wisconsin as an example and they won 47% of their games against that. And they are 0-4 against OSU. My guess is Michigan is probably better than Iowa, Michigan State and PSU during that time frame, but I could be wrong.
Everyone in the league has an OSU problem. JH has Michigan as a top 10 program since he got there. Michigan was a fringe top 25 program when he took over(probably being a little generous) and now they are firmly a top 15/10 program regularly under him.
We shouldn't be comparing Michigan to OSU because they aren't OSU. They aren't close to OSU in this century or even in the modern era. He's stabilized the program after their worst two coaching in the history. He's done a very good job, just not an elite job.
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Finally. A voice of reason. Michigan isn't OSU. Other team's lack of success is overlooked, Michigan's is highlighted because of the rivalry. No one expects Fleck to beat OSU, so no one bats an eye when he doesn't.
Honestly, I'm mostly happy with the shape of our program currently. I think (besides an OSU win) I'm really missing that one game where we weren't supposed to win and pulled off some amazing victory....but the reality is that we don't enter many games now as the underdog, or a strong underdog, except for the OSU game. And partially because Harbaugh has built the program back up to what it was before Lloyd left. Still had an OSU problem then, and we still have an OSU problem now. The OSU problem isn't unique to Harbaugh, it's plagued 4 Michigan coaches, and one of them had a national title under his belt.
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Michigan State AD fully agrees with this.
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I’m going to argue that Michigan State is not a top 4 program in the division the last 5 seasons.
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Michigan state is one of 3 B10 teams with a B10 title in the last 5 seasons.
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I think there's a perception out there that he hasn't won any big games. It's just not true. Another big problem is that all the biggest wins have happened in the first part of the season. In 2016 JH had 3 top 20 wins(2 top 10) wins before Oct 2nd as it turned out. 2 of his other best wins came before Oct 10th, in other seasons.
OSU is 65-4 since Urban in B1G play during the regular season. MSU has gotten them a couple times when it mattered, but outside of that the other losses didn't stop them from winning the league.
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I don't think they are a top 4 B1G program either in that time frame, but if you take out Michigan, I was simply doing the other top 5 programs as a reference, meaning they are top 6.
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Harbaugh has at least mostly beat the teams that he "should"
So you can probably say they will beat Sparty, Indiana, Rutger & Maryland
They could go 0-4 against the others but theyll probably end up squeaking one out at least
So you can probably say they will beat Sparty, Indiana, Rutger & Maryland
They could go 0-4 against the others but theyll probably end up squeaking one out at least
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Harbaugh has a pretty good record beating the others not named OSU. We're about 50% against PSU and Wisconsin.
A perception he hasn't won big games? Here are some of his numbers. 10-14 vs. AP ranked teams. 2-11 vs. top 10 opponents. 1-10 as an underdog. He's lost a lot more big games than he won.
In comment # 63 you said half of his losses are to Ohio State (5) and meaningless bowl games (4). The Orange, Outback, Peach & Citrus are meaningless?
The bigger the game the less likely his team will win. That's not the mark of a great coach. He wins the games he's supposed to. But can't win the big games that matter. The numbers don't lie.
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Right. But again, at least half of those against the top 10 are OSU or meaningless bowl games.
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So are those “meaningless bowl games” are also meaningless to the other team but still manage to beat Michigan.
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Winning would be nice. But if we wont them I'm not sure they'd count FOR Harbaugh in the same way Wamu is using them against him.
Well since you've already said over on the other site that any losses to ranked teams don't count towards JH's career resume I fully understand why you think the Orange, Outback, Peach and Citrus are meaningless. But here's where you're a hypocrite. Had they won any of those bowl games you wouldn't call them meaningless.
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So the coaching staff and players go into the games not even trying to win the games? That’s crazy.
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Kinda. In the last 2-3, maybe even 4, most of our star players have opted out of them.
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And of course your opponents are at full strength.