More Michigan Cheating

I disagree.

 
Serious a couple of pieces of paper with some shit written on the coulda been drawn up as "evidence!' by anybody. There's not even any proof it's legit :pound: :pound: it's a fun PR attempt by Michigan. But it's nothing.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Click to expand...

Unlike Michigan fans, I have to be honest when I see something like this ... this seems problematic. There is a rule that says you can't scout opponents. We all know that was done to reign in expenses in 1994 or thereabouts. There is also a rule that says you can't record signals. Combined, they are designed to keep exactly what UM did from happening.

But, if a bunch of teams can pull their intel gained during their games and give it to future opponents of UM, I am having a hard time seeing the substantive difference. Basically, the other teams are scouting for UM's opponents. Now, presumably, they didn't record the signals, and that's a big part of it. But, if I am playing UM in the 10th game of the year and I get signal sheets from a half dozen teams that played them earlier, the spirit of the scouting prohibition has been violated.

This is the first thing that the UM fans have thrown against the wall that comes close to sticking if you ask me. The problem is that this seems to have been done in response to what UM did, and evidently this is a common thing that isn't illegal, per se.

 
osubuckeye89 said:
Looks all legal to me. No rules against sharing tips with other coaches. Hilarious that this is Michigan's Hail Mary to save themselves.
Click to expand...
lol, I agree. Neither team broke the rules. What you can't argue is that in person scouting is somehow legal if you get other coaches to do it for you, while saying it's illegal to have random people do it for you from the stands.

Michigan's defense will obviously center around that fact. And one would think coaches conspiring against Michigan, with evidence, would be far more of a "sportsmanship" argument than a low level staffer doing something without any evidence of the HC knowing. This is bad for the argument of "must punish this unique rule break!".
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Serious a couple of pieces of paper with some shit written on the coulda been drawn up as "evidence!' by anybody. There's not even any proof it's legit :pound: :pound: it's a fun PR attempt by Michigan. But it's nothing.
Click to expand...
The person leaking it has supposedly been working with Michigan/big10/NCAA and providing more than what's given here -- in the form of texts from coaches talking about said documents. Pretty hard evidence.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Unlike Michigan fans, I have to be honest when I see something like this ... this seems problematic. There is a rule that says you can't scout opponents. We all know that was done to reign in expenses in 1994 or thereabouts. There is also a rule that says you can't record signals. Combined, they are designed to keep exactly what UM did from happening.

But, if a bunch of teams can pull their intel gained during their games and give it to future opponents of UM, I am having a hard time seeing the substantive difference. Basically, the other teams are scouting for UM's opponents. Now, presumably, they didn't record the signals, and that's a big part of it. But, if I am playing UM in the 10th game of the year and I get signal sheets from a half dozen teams that played them earlier, the spirit of the scouting prohibition has been violated.

This is the first thing that the UM fans have thrown against the wall that comes close to sticking if you ask me. The problem is that this seems to have been done in response to what UM did, and evidently this is a common thing that isn't illegal, per se.
Click to expand...

Yep even if it's legit, it's one of those grey area things that isn't really "illegal" you can argue the ethics of it, but it's not against the rules.

But this came from a very pro Michigan source and seems flimsy at best. They've got Michigan on fucking video doing shit that was against the rules. What do they have? Some pieces of paper that legit coulda been fabricated by anyone and passed off as "LOOK EVIDENCE!"
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Yep even if it's legit, it's one of those grey area things that isn't really "illegal" you can argue the ethics of it, but it's not against the rules.

But this came from a very pro Michigan source and seems flimsy at best. They've got Michigan on fucking video doing shit that was against the rules. What do they have? Some pieces of paper that legit coulda been fabricated by anyone and passed off as "LOOK EVIDENCE!"
Click to expand...
Sport Illustrated is "very pro michigan"? Moreover, this information has been in the hands of Thamel first, a week ago, who did nothing with it. Pro michigan from what angle?
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Michigan fans have lost it. The holier than thou fan base is now moving the goal posts to "well lying to the NCAA is actually the honorable thing to do because their rules are stupid!"
Click to expand...
I'd like to say -- do not lump all Michigan fans into the holier than thou group. I've pushed for Michigan to bend rules and push the boundaries for years. I couldn't care less about the academics at UM. I just want to see them win.

That being said -- if what is being reported about Stalions is all true. They need a lot of practice in the area of rule breaking, as cheeseburgers and using personal credit cards to purchase tickets isn't what I had in mind.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Sport Illustrated is "very pro michigan"? Moreover, this information has been in the hands of Thamel first, a week ago, who did nothing with it. Pro michigan from what angle?
Click to expand...

The AP article it originally came from was from a obviously pro Michigan man.

And like I said, it's hilarious written like some PR propaganda
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
lol, I agree. Neither team broke the rules. What you can't argue is that in person scouting is somehow legal if you get other coaches to do it for you, while saying it's illegal to have random people do it for you from the stands.

Michigan's defense will obviously center around that fact. And one would think coaches conspiring against Michigan, with evidence, would be far more of a "sportsmanship" argument than a low level staffer doing something without any evidence of the HC knowing. This is bad for the argument of "must punish this unique rule break!".
Click to expand...

Seems the "conspiring" against Michigan was likely done in response to what everyone else knew Michigan was doing. They rest of the league didn't just wake up one day and say "LETS GO OUT AND GET MICHIGAN!"
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Sure, cheater. That's exactly what a "deer in the headlights" cheater would say.
Click to expand...
As the fan of a program who has cheated for decades -- you would definitely know what a cheater would say. So I'm taking your word for.

Or is this where we say everyone was doing it, so the cheating was fine, even though "everyone was doing it" is a bold faced lie?!?!
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
As the fan of a program who has cheated for decades -- you would definitely know what a cheater would say. So I'm taking your word for.

Or is this where we say everyone was doing it, so the cheating was fine, even though "everyone was doing it" is a bold faced lie?!?!
Click to expand...

Michigan fans quickly forget the Fab 5, which was one of the biggest college basketball scandals there ever was.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
The AP article it originally came from was from a obviously pro Michigan man.

And like I said, it's hilarious written like some PR propaganda
Click to expand...
It was from a "former coach" at another institution.....so there's no way to frame this as a totally "pro michigan" source. They got the information because they WEREN'T coaching at Michigan and involved in this scheme. Sounds more like a disgruntled ex-coach somewhere.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Seems the "conspiring" against Michigan was likely done in response to what everyone else knew Michigan was doing. They rest of the league didn't just wake up one day and say "LETS GO OUT AND GET MICHIGAN!"
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that helps your argument...


The simple solution is for the B10 to say they have evidence of widespread issues that were in poor taste and attempts to scoot the rules. That needs to stop. Secondly, the conference needs to proposition the NCAA to alter the rules to allow helmet communications to stop this from being a problem.
 
At this point it boils down to was Stallions attending games in person, himself.

As I see it there is ample evidence that in person scouting (done through 3rd parties) is a regular occurrence within (at least) the B10. Thus negating any claim about the "network of spies".

So if Stallions was at the games personally, this would be a direct violation of NCAA rules. The question becomes 1. Can they prove it was him and 2. What significant advantage was this vs. the network of sign sharing information clearly going on in the conference.

I don't think they can prove it's him, and thus becomes a lot harder to argue of what happens beyond that.
 
osubuckeye89 said:
Michigan fans quickly forget the Fab 5, which was one of the biggest college basketball scandals there ever was.
Click to expand...
I haven't forgotten it at all. That is the time where my UM fandom grew. Everyone wanted to be like the Fab 5, even if you weren't a Michigan fan. Everyone started wearing baggy shorts and black sox/black shoes. Rap Music and trash talking became popular.

That being said -- it also wasn't coordinated by the school or the coach. Ed Martin was involved with the kids, like Jalen Rose, Chris Webber, Robert Traylor when they were little kids growing up. Anyone who wanted to test their basketball skills would go down to St. Cecilia to play. From little kids to NBA players would go there.

Jalen Rose grew up in the poorest of poor areas of Detroit. Ed Martin used to buy him his basketball shoes when he was a pre-teen, as his family couldn't afford it. Same with Robert Traylor. The connection with Chris Webber is -- Martin worked with his dad and they were friends. Best part of Chris Webber is -- he wanted to act like he was from the streets and the kid went to a $60,000 a year private high school. :pound:

I love the story of the Fab 5.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
As the fan of a program who has cheated for decades -- you would definitely know what a cheater would say. So I'm taking your word for.

Or is this where we say everyone was doing it, so the cheating was fine, even though "everyone was doing it" is a bold faced lie?!?!
Click to expand...
You are so broken you can't understand what I am saying.

Quit deflecting ... it's not about my program cheating in the past and paying the penalty for it, it's about your cheating program that is going to pay the penalty for it. Stay on point, knucklehead.
 
Anyone read this story about Stalions getting sued by his HOA for an abundance of vacuum cleaners being delivered to his house while living there (or at least things in vacuum cleaner boxes)? I know Harbaugh is a biggie-sized Asberger with cheese combo meal but holy fuck, this guy is on another level.
 
Most likely Michigan is going to voluntarily suspend Harbaugh by the end of this week. Quite possibly through the CCG IF they make it that far.

The reason is because Commissioner Petitti and the COPC have Michigan by the economic short hairs. As written, the Big 10 Institutional Governance Standards does not give the Commissioner or the COPC the ability to suspend Harbaugh. The potential penalties do not address coaches. They address the entire institution.
Commissioner Petitti and the COPC can merely suggest to Michigan that they suspend Harbaugh. If Michigan thumbs their noses at them then they can legally drop the hammer economically and any threats need to stay focused on that.

"Such corrective action may include: i. Financial penalties, including a reduction of Conference distributions. ii. Probation, under terms that reasonably relate to correcting the failure to comply. iii. Suspension from participation in a particular sport, or from membership in general, for a stated period of time .iv. Expulsion from membership."

They're obviously not going to expel Michigan from membership. They're a blueblood and a Big 10 bell-cow, so just take that threat off the table.
They likely won't suspend the entire football team either because it would effect Penn St, Maryland, and Ohio St's schedules. They can suspend Michigan from participation in the CCG though.
Another issue is the effect a team suspension from Penn St, Maryland, and Ohio St will have on the media right's contracts. Penn St and Ohio St are certain to have huge viewership numbers. The probation aspect is there but fairly meaningless since Stalions is no longer with the program. i.e. "We took steps to correct the failure to comply"

So Commissioner Petitti and the COPC are down to reducing conference distributions (possibly for years), and some type of probation. We could see Michigan's conference distributions dropped to Oregon and Washington type numbers through the next media rights contract in 2029/2030. Is Michigan willing to take that type of economic hit to keep Harbaugh on the sidelines the next 3 or 4 games?

Ultimately the NCAA will be the ones vacating wins, bowl bans, reducing scholarships, and placing a show cause on Harbaugh. All of those things are on the table and are likely to be the most severe if Michigan doesn't cooperate with Commissioner Petitti and the COPC. However, that's going to come long after this season is over.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top