What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

dbldwn711 said:
again, I was talking about assumptions. The assumption is that if you get rear-ended your body move forward. That ASSUMPTION is wrong.
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lolzzz that would not be my assumption.
 
Nosferatu said:
Doesn't matter if it goes through the initial reaction will still be to go forward it could snap back but initially it goes forward not backward
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Ok. The way I’m reading you is the bullet strike is more akin to being smacked in the back of the head with a hand, am I off?
 
Nosferatu said:
Doesn't matter if it goes through the initial reaction will still be to go forward it could snap back but initially it goes forward not backward
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the video shows a slight initial forward motion of the head then it snaps back.
 
dbldwn711 said:
@Orlando_Eagles you mentioned that you could easily come off as being anti-conspiracy bc you don’t buy the conspiracy theory’s. I’ve felt that way at times too. In fact, those that do believe in conspiracy theories often lash out at those who don’t by saying stuff like “you just believe whatever the govt/MSM tells you!” At least for me (and I suspect for you also) thats not the case. I’m quite capable of believing that people within our government are capable of doing very unscrupulous things. In fact, I did so for a very long time in this case. No, what I do is I follow the evidence. In fact, that’s what this book did for me in this case. IMO this book isn’t so much a “theory” but rather a book that questions all the other theories. You used the phrase earlier “to the exclusion of all others”. That’s what it does. It looks at the evidence (not emotions and arguments) and says based upon the evidence and to the exclusion of all others heres the only thing you can logically conclude. That’s why I’m constantly searching for NEW evidence bc it’s that NEW evidence that will disprove this book.

I’m still looking but I haven’t found it yet. I’m all ears for it. Trust me, if I ever see it I won’t immediately dismiss it. I don’t have a narrative I’m trying to sell. I won’t make that evidence “fit my narrative”. I’ll look at it openly and objectively.
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My experience is this. I don’t trust fuck from the government. I’ve always been that way. I could easily glom onto any conspiracy casting any government in a hidden and damaging agenda. And, in fact, this was my younger years. I was ready to believe many tales.

As I grew and matured I became more interested in proof. Conspiracy let me down. Boo hoo. So at first I became wholly resistant to any conspiracy. Then I realized that was just as bad as believing any conspiracy. There really is no middle ground except for what can be verified with evidence and logic.

Am I missing a valid conspiracy because of this measure? Sure, but it’s a fair price to not pay with the frustration of believing many things that can’t be proven with the same rules of evidence and logic.

That critical nature of evaluating things makes me FEEL like I come across as a conspiracy basher, but I hope that’s not what comes across from me.

I work to keep an open mind, but not so open that I’m willing to swallow anything. I don’t come around this place to play gotchas or anything like that. The only time I’ve done that was in the PF. I got so bent on fucking politics that I found myself playing shit like this. It’s not something I liked about myself and it’s why I gave up on that forum.

I totally get it if some see my name and avatar and think that PF prick that just wants to walk others into a corner. I’m just working to keep making distance from that nonsense.
 
Nosferatu said:
I've watched that frame 1,000 times I can't agree.
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fair enough. It’s slight… very slight. I didn’t see it either till it was pointed out to me but I see.

reasonable minds can differ…
 
Nosferatu said:
I've watched that frame 1,000 times I can't agree.
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What do you see in that frame?

Again, I’m asking because I value your opinion here and I’m open to what other opinions are.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
My experience is this. I don’t trust fuck from the government. I’ve always been that way. I could easily glom onto any conspiracy casting any government in a hidden and damaging agenda. And, in fact, this was my younger years. I was ready to believe many tales.

As I grew and matured I became more interested in proof. Conspiracy let me down. Boo hoo. So at first I became wholly resistant to any conspiracy. Then I realized that was just as bad as believing any conspiracy. There really is no middle ground except for what can be verified with evidence and logic.

Am I missing a valid conspiracy because of this measure? Sure, but it’s a fair price to not pay with the frustration of believing many things that can’t be proven with the same rules of evidence and logic.

That critical nature of evaluating things makes me FEEL like I come across as a conspiracy basher, but I hope that’s not what comes across from me.

I work to keep an open mind, but not so open that I’m willing to swallow anything. I don’t come around this place to play gotchas or anything like that. The only time I’ve done that was in the PF. I got so bent on fucking politics that I found myself playing shit like this. It’s not something I liked about myself and it’s why I gave up on that forum.

I totally get it if some see my name and avatar and think that PF prick that just wants to walk others into a corner. I’m just working to keep making distance from that nonsense.
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it’s so easy to get sucked into whatever narrative is getting pushed. We are all guilty of it and each time it happens we tell ourselves “next time I won’t let this happen. Next time I’ll wait for the proof”.

Again, not to get political but for over a year the news kept telling us “mueller is coming for trump. He’s got the EVIDENCE”. Then… nothing. No evidence. I sorta feel like it’s the same thing here. These books all promised me something but they never delivered on those promises. This book made no promises. It just systematically went thru each piece of evidence and did so in an easy to read fashion. It didn’t start off with a conclusion and then try to make evidence fit that conclusion. Hell, this book said flat out WC was wrong about the order of the shots!
 
dbldwn711 said:
it’s so easy to get sucked into whatever narrative is getting pushed. We are all guilty of it and each time it happens we tell ourselves “next time I won’t let this happen. Next time I’ll wait for the proof”.

Again, not to get political but for over a year the news kept telling us “mueller is coming for trump. He’s got the EVIDENCE”. Then… nothing. No evidence. I sorta feel like it’s the same thing here. These books all promised me something but they never delivered on those promises. This book made no promises. It just systematically went thru each piece of evidence and did so in an easy to read fashion. It didn’t start off with a conclusion and then try to make evidence fit that conclusion. Hell, this book said flat out WC was wrong about the order of the shots!
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Wrong on order of shots and he also agreed that the WC report was extremely flawed.

A proper analysis of the events should have take well Into the late 60’s to get as right as possible. But, like JFKs autopsy, it was rushed for reasons that are just silly in the grand scheme of things.
 
Nosferatu said:
So, what did the book say?
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WC said first shot was magic bullet, second shot missed, third shot head shot. that btw set forth the “3 shots in only 6 seconds” timeline.

the book says first shot missed, second shot magic bullet, third shot head shot. This allows for more than 6 seconds to make all three shots
 
dbldwn711 said:
WC said first shot was magic bullet, second shot missed, third shot head shot. that btw set forth the “3 shots in only 6 seconds” timeline.

the book says first shot missed, second shot magic bullet, third shot head shot. This allows for more than 6 seconds to make all three shots
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Funny, I had always thought first shot missed. Which I never understood, either he fired through a tree which is almost impossible to believe or he missed from 120 feet but hit from 190 and 265.
 
dbldwn711 said:
exactly. You wanna kill the president because he fired you?

I’ll resist the urge to make a political joke here bc I don’t wanna derail this but you get the idea.
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We had a President get shot because he didn’t hire a guy…
 
dbldwn711 said:
Let me say this about the head movement.

We always make assumptions in life based upon what we think we know. That’s natural. However, our assumptions aren’t always right. For example, if you’ve ever been driving a car and gotten rear ended you would THINK that your body/head would be pushed forward into the steering wheel but that’s not what happens. When you are driving and you get rear ended your head and neck snap BACKWARDS. You get whiplashed. In other words, you don’t “go with the force”. You actually go opposite the force.

Now I’ve never been shot in the head nor am I an expert in getting shot in the head but it’s certainly possible that your head would snap backwards and not forward like everyone is saying. In other words, your assumption of what would happen could easily be wrong.
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shell casings are easily planted.
 
Let me explain the flawed six second timeline.

The WC… the OFFICIAL version for years said the order of the shots I previously gave. If you look at the Zapruder film and see Kennedy reacting to the throat would it’s only 6 seconds till the head shot. It’s Kennedy’s reacting to bullets that establishes the timeline. If WC had been right (first shot was magic bullet) then that means the shot that missed had to be fired second and then the head shot. Thus, three shots in 6 seconds.

Look at all the books, tests, reenactments, etc that were done based upon that one piece of erroneous info. It started the whole “expert marksmen couldn’t get three shots off in 6 seconds” stuff and really fueled a lot of this conspiracy debate stuff.

But, if the first shot is a miss, then you have more than six seconds because you’re not limited to Kennedy’s reaction time to being shot. Oh.. his reaction time is the same (6 seconds) but now you don’t have to account for a missed shot in that timeframe. In fact, you’ve got Oswald lining up that headshot for 6 seconds.
 
RoyMunson said:
shell casings are easily planted.
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You’re right. They also had a crystal clear palm print from Oswald on the box he was sitting on. It’s not located on the box that can be explained as just moving the box around. But it does fit someone sitting on a box and placing their hand down on top of the box while sitting there.
 
dbldwn711 said:
Let me explain the flawed six second timeline.

The WC… the OFFICIAL version for years said the order of the shots I previously gave. If you look at the Zapruder film and see Kennedy reacting to the throat would it’s only 6 seconds till the head shot. It’s Kennedy’s reacting to bullets that establishes the timeline. If WC had been right (first shot was magic bullet) then that means the shot that missed had to be fired second and then the head shot. Thus, three shots in 6 seconds.

Look at all the books, tests, reenactments, etc that were done based upon that one piece of erroneous info. It started the whole “expert marksmen couldn’t get three shots off in 6 seconds” stuff and really fueled a lot of this conspiracy debate stuff.

But, if the first shot is a miss, then you have more than six seconds because you’re not limited to Kennedy’s reaction time to being shot. Oh.. his reaction time is the same (6 seconds) but now you don’t have to account for a missed shot in that timeframe. In fact, you’ve got Oswald lining up that headshot for 6 seconds.
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Most timelines with this theory are 8-11 seconds, though sticking strictly to Zapruder it was much closer to the lower end of that.
 
RoyMunson said:
shell casings are easily planted.
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yes, that is very very true but you also have the witness testimony of the two guys directly below Oswald on the 5th floor of TSBD. They said they not only heard 3 the shots they also heard the 3 shell casings hit the floor above them.

Have you SEEN them talk about what they witnessed? I’ve posted their interviews a couple of times. I believe them. I don’t just read their WC testimony. I actually watched them recount what they saw. I saw how they spoke and i believed them. To me, they are simple unsophisticated guys. They don’t have an agenda. They are just typical hard working guys who basically stack books for a living. They aren’t the kind of guys you would recruit to help perpetuate a falsehood. They came out early with what they saw and heard.

I don’t think they are lying and I don’t think they are mistaken.
 
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