What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

Orlando_Eagles said:
I’ve always wondered on this. He left the marines a marksman, but what was the grading he went through years later that qualified this?
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Nope, he did not leave the Marines as a sharp shooter, at least that's what I have always read, if you have something showing that is incorrect may we see? I am more than willing to change my opinion.
 
batchaps4me said:
There is a very high risk of breaking glass deflecting the shot that broke it. The HRT deploys two shooters preforming near simultaneous shots when shooting through glass for this very reason. IF LHO took that shot at the general, the miss is unremarkable. More remarkable, IMHO, is the fact that the shooter didn't take the 2 seconds to work the bolt for a second shot. It's almost as if shooting the general was not the primary goal.
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Inglourious Basterds Bingo GIF
 
Nosferatu said:
Nope, he did not leave the Marines as a sharp shooter, at least that's what I have always read, if you have something showing that is incorrect may we see? I am more than willing to change my opinion.
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No, I never dug too deep into that one as I’m biased on Marine training. It he marked well in a population of trained shooters that is good enough for me.

I know…..guy believes in sole shooter but didn’t read up on Oswald’s record too deeply. My belief is based less on Oswald’s shooting proficiency and more that I just don’t feel moved by any evidence I’ve ever seen that there were more shooters.

And that takes it back to magic bullets and wound examinations….
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
No, I never dug too deep into that one as I’m biased on Marine training. It he marked well in a population of trained shooters that is good enough for me.

I know…..guy believes in sole shooter but didn’t read up on Oswald’s record too deeply. My belief is based less on Oswald’s shooting proficiency and more that I just don’t feel moved by any evidence I’ve ever seen that there were more shooters.

And that takes it back to magic bullets and wound examinations….
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That is where I landed after years and years of back and forth. I now lean to the side that there was no magic in that bullet, but I have waffled from this position before. IMHO one thing to keep in mind is that the federal agencies engaged in a massive conspiracy/coverup in Dallas to conceal their failings. The irony may well be that their "protect the agencies at all costs" may well have done more damage to their credibility than their failure to secure the POTUS.
 
batchaps4me said:
That is where I landed after years and years of back and forth. I now lean to the side that there was no magic in that bullet, but I have waffled from this position before. IMHO one thing to keep in mind is that the federal agencies engaged in a massive conspiracy/coverup in Dallas to conceal their failings. The irony may well be that their "protect the agencies at all costs" may well have done more damage to their credibility than their failure to secure the POTUS.
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I have to go back and read on the bullet again. I want to say what has stuck with me the most but I don’t want to confuse it with some other source that wasn’t as credible to me.

Concealing of failings has always been near the center for what I have come to believe. It’s real and it’s critical.

I think there were agencies within the government that at least had “thought exercises” on things like offing a sitting President. Even something as prelim and not sourced out as that isn’t something you can defend if called on the carpet. It’s treason.

I think somewhere in the apparatus there had been contact with LHO. I think he knew enough to possibly think if he proved himself to them he could be accepted.

When you get right down to it with LHO….he was always just trying to be accepted. That was his deficit he was always chasing.

It supports for me a sole shooter with something to prove, and some agencies with things to hide.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
It supports for me a sole shooter with something to prove, and some agencies with things to hide.
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I agree with you 100% but even this does not exclude a conspiracy. It limits a possible conspiracy in scope and size to a more believable level. If you accept that the agencies would make a concerted effort to cover their own failings after the fact, you then eliminate the need for massive coordination needed to make it happen without fail during the planning phase. I do believe that LHO was the lone shooter. I also believe that the only feasible conspiracy would involve the mafia and/or low level intelligence operatives that had worked with the mafia to eliminate Castro manipulating LHO into pulling the trigger.
 
batchaps4me said:
I agree with you 100% but even this does not exclude a conspiracy. It limits a possible conspiracy in scope and size to a more believable level. If you accept that the agencies would make a concerted effort to cover their own failings after the fact, you then eliminate the need for massive coordination needed to make it happen without fail during the planning phase. I do believe that LHO was the lone shooter. I also believe that the only feasible conspiracy would involve the mafia and/or low level intelligence operatives that had worked with the mafia to eliminate Castro manipulating LHO into pulling the trigger.
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The Mafia angle can admittedly get me pulled in at any point. It is clearly known that they and the government had worked together on Castro. Ultimately, I can see them wanting to cover up for all the same reasons as the government. Hence they provided the “cleaner” for silencing LHO in Ruby.

I don’t disavow any conspiracy, I just don’t think it’s as purposefully sinister or all encompassing as some theories suggest. Government is inefficient and quick to try to cover up even the slightest whiff of culpability.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
The Mafia angle can admittedly get me pulled in at any point. It is clearly known that they and the government had worked together on Castro. Ultimately, I can see them wanting to cover up for all the same reasons as the government. Hence they provided the “cleaner” for silencing LHO in Ruby.

I don’t disavow any conspiracy, I just don’t think it’s as purposefully sinister or all encompassing as some theories suggest. Government is inefficient and quick to try to cover up even the slightest whiff of culpability.
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We are pretty much on the same page. For years I discounted any mob theory because they did not have the stroke to enact the coverup across multiple agencies. It finally dawned on me that the feds were protecting their own agencies' mistakes that would have prevented the shooting, not their involvement in planning and executing the POTUS. I am still not sure if the mafia ordered the hit as Sam Giancana claims but it becomes feasible that his orders and as little as one or two paramilitary gun running, John Bircher, retired IC types that worked with the mafia decided to do it.
 
batchaps4me said:
We are pretty much on the same page. For years I discounted any mob theory because they did not have the stroke to enact the coverup across multiple agencies. It finally dawned on me that the feds were protecting their own agencies' mistakes that would have prevented the shooting, not their involvement in planning and executing the POTUS. I am still not sure if the mafia ordered the hit as Sam Giancana claims but it becomes feasible that his orders and as little as one or two paramilitary gun running, John Bircher, retired IC types that worked with the mafia decided to do it.
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It’s just where I’ve landed. The government did not plan to assassinate the President. But, those involved in LHO doing it had past ties to the government…..so cover shit up. That’s the hottest potato there could be.

Which still predicates on a sole shooter and magic bullets, which I think is still the valid debate to have.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I just finished Case Closed by Gerald Posner. It’s a well laid out case that the JFK assassination was just as it was called. A lone shooter. No conspiracy. The book may be decades old….but most of the sound facts that have been uncovered since it came only only prove it more.

I’ve always kept an open mind to all the conspiracies. Unless it could be proven otherwise it was possible that anything happened. I want to believe it’s the mafia or something insane like that. So I challenged myself to read it.

It’s a long read, and it really starts out dragging over Oswalds life. But, it has to do this to lay things out for later. After this the book takes off and approaches each and every major theory with sound logic and reason.

There was plenty that happened on this bad day, and after, that left the door open to speculation. But, as technology has gotten better it just keeps pointing back to it being just what it was…..a lone, deranged killer.

No matter where you lie on what happened that day, or who did it, this read is a good challenge to take on and read through open mindedly.

Anyone else read this book before? If so what did you think?
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If there were only shots from the school book depository why is everyone running and pointing towards the grassy knoll?


 
This so far has been very interesting. I am about 90 minutes in.


 
Anybody watch JFK, what the doctors saw yet?
 
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