What Is The PAC’s or Big 12’s Move?

[outofyourmind]

ou people want nothing to do with okie st for whatever reasons. They always downplay Bedlam

I'll help with that.
It's not that we don't want to have anything to do with them, it's just a series. It never has felt like a 'rivalry', but more like the obnoxious little brother following you around everywhere trying to be as good as their big brother.

I'd like to play them every year, but if that isn't possible.... oh well
It would be nice if the SEC would bring them in though.

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[OregonDucks]

Why not? Former Big 8 school. Denver market. If we're going to be extremely petty towards one school that left, it'd be Texas. This isn't about ruthlessly growing the pot so much as it is survival.

Well that, that's the thing, i dont know if Big12 could afford holding a grudge. They may both need each other to stay alive.

 

[Top Cat]

Well that, that's the thing, i dont know if Big12 could afford holding a grudge. They may both need each other to stay alive.

Texas is free to hand out the money they owe if they want to leave early.

 

[Volbound1700]

Going back to Big12/Pac12 situation,

Big12 will definitely grow in value by adding Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas. They should jump all over that. However it makes them an 18-team league. You really have too many teams to spread the wealth.

This is where Houston was problematic. I don't think they added much. Definitely not what those 6 add. At some point, you will have addition by subtraction.

 

[OregonDucks]

Going back to Big12/Pac12 situation,

Big12 will definitely grow in value by adding Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas. They should jump all over that. However it makes them an 18-team league. You really have too many teams to spread the wealth.

This is where Houston was problematic. I don't think they added much. Definitely not what those 6 add. At some point, you will have addition by subtraction.

The Big12 does not get Oregon and Washington without Oregon State and Washington State. Only the B1G and/or SEC could get Oregon and UW without their in-state counterparts.

So if the Big12 really wanted Oregon and UW they'd have to ditch Utah and Colorado (probably) and take Ore State and Wazzu

 

[duckboy33]

Going back to Big12/Pac12 situation,

Big12 will definitely grow in value by adding Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas. They should jump all over that. However it makes them an 18-team league. You really have too many teams to spread the wealth.

This is where Houston was problematic. I don't think they added much. Definitely not what those 6 add. At some point, you will have addition by subtraction.

I almost wonder if the PAC 12 adding Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Baylor makes more sense...

 

[Top Cat]

I almost wonder if the PAC 12 adding Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Baylor makes more sense...

I don't think Cal (others?) would play ball with Baylor if they're not playing ball with BYU. K-State would have all the same financial problems Oregon St and Wazzu would the BIG 12. Though the Kansas legislature might throw a hissy fit, I suppose.

 

[duckboy33]

I don't think Cal (others?) would play ball with Baylor if they're not playing ball with BYU.

I think being able to screw over BYU would make it worth it

 

[Wild Turkey]

Well something is not making Notre Dame happy about arrangement with B1G even if they keep Stanford. Boston College is in a market not currently held by B1G.

I can perhaps see your argument with the others. Maybe Syracuse is another one that comes into the picture for Up-State New York? Keep in mind that Catholicism is bigger in the Northeast versus the other areas of the country.

The market thing isn’t as big as it was last time in expansion because the cable landscape has changed dramatically. For example the SEC took Missouri because they were able to charge everyone in the state of Missouri $1.50 a month that had the SEC network and ESPN required them to have it (free money) where if you where in a state that didn’t have an SEC team you were paying like .50 a month for the SEC network. All of that is pretty much gone since cord cutting came along so now the name of the game is ratings. The SEC does not invite Mizzou in this environment.

BC literally can be in the Boston market which is massive but it doesn’t bring the dollars it once did.

@WhosYourDawggy is correct in that eyeballs and ratings are king now.

This is why he has a valid point about VT and NCS verses OSU for the SEC as they have been generating more ratings. I’m just not sold on their ratings because they are spiked by Bedlam (which might go away) and the B12 championship that was played with no competition. If they miss the cut for the SEC I think they plunge and VT and NCS if they make the cut will surge. SEC teams are going to watch their team play NCS at a much higher volume than ACC teams do. So ratings can be manipulated.

The same would be true for BC but I don’t see them being attractive to the B1G. They will be able to get GT, UVA or Duke which are much bigger name brands.

The market size matters, alumni base matters but ratings are king and I just think more people will tune into Iowa vs GT than BC. Personally I’ll catch a GT game here and there but rarely do I see BC playing unless I catch they are upsetting someone.

 

[Volbound1700]

The market thing isn’t as big as it was last time in expansion because the cable landscape has changed dramatically. For example the SEC took Missouri because they were able to charge everyone in the state of Missouri $1.50 a month that had the SEC network and ESPN required them to have it (free money) where if you where in a state that didn’t have an SEC team you were paying like .50 a month for the SEC network. All of that is pretty much gone since cord cutting came along so now the name of the game is ratings. The SEC does not invite Mizzou in this environment.

BC literally can be in the Boston market which is massive but it doesn’t bring the dollars it once did.

@WhosYourDawggy is correct in that eyeballs and ratings are king now.

This is why he has a valid point about VT and NCS verses OSU for the SEC as they have been generating more ratings. I’m just not sold on their ratings because they are spiked by Bedlam (which might go away) and the B12 championship that was played with no competition. If they miss the cut for the SEC I think they plunge and VT and NCS if they make the cut will surge. SEC teams are going to watch their team play NCS at a much higher volume than ACC teams do. So ratings can be manipulated.

The same would be true for BC but I don’t see them being attractive to the B1G. They will be able to get GT, UVA or Duke which are much bigger name brands.

The market size matters, alumni base matters but ratings are king and I just think more people will tune into Iowa vs GT than BC. Personally I’ll catch a GT game here and there but rarely do I see BC playing unless I catch they are upsetting someone.

I can see that and frankly the last round of expansion was a little silly with teams like Missouri and Rutgers being added only due to ratings.

I am not sure what is holding up Notre Dame. I thought maybe BC. Being Independent is leaving money on the table for a tradition that really no longer makes any sense.

My thought with BC is that you don't have a New England team in the B1G right now and New England is probably the main Catholic part of our nation.

 

[OlyDuck]

I find that hard to believe because Big12 contract came close to the Pac12 with UCLA and USC right now. Granted, I think Big12 did a hell of a job with their negotiation because I do think the Pac12 has better brands.

i didnt say it would blow the BigXII out of the water. just that it would still be higher and still among less schools if it stayed at 10.
dont know if it would be true or not. just stuff i have heard on ESPNU radio and on twitter

 

[Tharvot]

I don't think Cal (others?) would play ball with Baylor if they're not playing ball with BYU. K-State would have all the same financial problems Oregon St and Wazzu would the BIG 12. Though the Kansas legislature might throw a hissy fit, I suppose.

I didn't think it would be possible for Texas or OU to decouple themselves from TTU/Baylor and Okie St. But somehow that happened.

In the end, unless the 2 conferences stay in tact, I think we will see more splitting of in-state schools. I guess how the split happens and which conference survives in name will depend on who (or if) the B1G or SEC poaches next.

 

[Tharvot]

I can see that and frankly the last round of expansion was a little silly with teams like Missouri and Rutgers being added only due to ratings.

I am not sure what is holding up Notre Dame. I thought maybe BC. Being Independent is leaving money on the table for a tradition that really no longer makes any sense.

My thought with BC is that you don't have a New England team in the B1G right now and New England is probably the main Catholic part of our nation.

Those are the 2 luckiest schools of all time. Both benefitted from a more desirable pairing school joining at or around the same time (Maryland in the B1G and A&M in the SEC). Now they're in plum position in the 2 dominant conferences enjoying their paychecks.

As for Notre Dame, they're in a position where they don't have to do anything they don't want to. The ACC is happy to host all their non-football sports just like the old BigEast did. They have their own lucrative national TV broadcast, and they have a built in advantage thanks to their name brand to the CFP. They know the ACC would never kick their non-football sports out, because that would just drive them to the B1G. Only thing that would ever truly force their hand is if the post season was locked to conference ties or if their TV contract dried up. Hard to see either of those 2 things happening any time soon.

 

[Volbound1700]

Those are the 2 luckiest schools of all time. Both benefitted from a more desirable pairing school joining at or around the same time (Maryland in the B1G and A&M in the SEC). Now they're in plum position in the 2 dominant conferences enjoying their paychecks.

As for Notre Dame, they're in a position where they don't have to do anything they don't want to. The ACC is happy to host all their non-football sports just like the old BigEast did. They have their own lucrative national TV broadcast, and they have a built in advantage thanks to their name brand to the CFP. They know the ACC would never kick their non-football sports out, because that would just drive them to the B1G. Only thing that would ever truly force their hand is if the post season was locked to conference ties or if their TV contract dried up. Hard to see either of those 2 things happening any time soon.

2035 could also be an interesting year. Clemson and FSU continue to flirt with the SEC. That is still not a good sign for ACC.

I think Notre Dame will eventually have to join some league.

 

[Tharvot]

2035 could also be an interesting year. Clemson and FSU continue to flirt with the SEC. That is still not a good sign for ACC.

I think Notre Dame will eventually have to join some league.

My guess is another round of conference shakeup happens before then...maybe in 5 or 6 years. That'll be the halfway point to the GOR in the ACC and might be when schools deem it more lucrative to take the penalty rather than wait and potentially miss out on the merry go round.

 

[Top Cat]

I didn't think it would be possible for Texas or OU to decouple themselves from TTU/Baylor and Okie St. But somehow that happened.

In the end, unless the 2 conferences stay in tact, I think we will see more splitting of in-state schools. I guess how the split happens and which conference survives in name will depend on who (or if) the B1G or SEC poaches next.

Oh for sure. I am sure politicians, especially alums of the lil bro schools, will hoot and holler but this isn't gonna end well for Wazzu, Oregon St, etc.

All indications are the Big 12 is doing the poaching here, not the other way around though. Open question how legit the Oregon/Washington to Big 12 stuff really is. Is it a bluff, or just a weird side effect of Notre Dame doing Notre Dame things.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I can see that and frankly the last round of expansion was a little silly with teams like Missouri and Rutgers being added only due to ratings.

I am not sure what is holding up Notre Dame. I thought maybe BC. Being Independent is leaving money on the table for a tradition that really no longer makes any sense.

My thought with BC is that you don't have a New England team in the B1G right now and New England is probably the main Catholic part of our nation.

What is holding up ND is:

1. Independence and not wanting to give that up.
2. Contractual Agreement with the ACC

They are not going to move quickly and they don’t have to. The least of their concerns are who would come with them.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Oh for sure. I am sure politicians, especially alums of the lil bro schools, will hoot and holler but this isn't gonna end well for Wazzu, Oregon St, etc.

All indications are the Big 12 is doing the poaching here, not the other way around though. Open question how legit the Oregon/Washington to Big 12 stuff really is. Is it a bluff, or just a weird side effect of Notre Dame doing Notre Dame things.

Just watch.

If AZ, ASU, Utah and Colorado get serious and announce they are moving in 2025 then Oregon and Washington will get super serious. They have time and will wait on the B1G but I don’t see it taking long. ND isn’t going anywhere soon and Oregon and Washington will join before the opportunity slips away. The Big 12 will wait as if they get the 4 mentioned it will mean the PAC is done and eventually the other schools will come to them.

 

[Volbound1700]

Just watch.

If AZ, ASU, Utah and Colorado get serious and announce they are moving in 2025 then Oregon and Washington will get super serious. They have time and will wait on the B1G but I don’t see it taking long. ND isn’t going anywhere soon and Oregon and Washington will join before the opportunity slips away. The Big 12 will wait as if they get the 4 mentioned it will mean the PAC is done and eventually the other schools will come to them.

I actually read somewhere that if the Pac12 falls below 9 members, it automatically disbands. Is that correct?

 

[Deep Creek]

seeing that makes me believe that unequal revenue is needed.. but the lowly programs are fat pigs now

I've said this all along. People yak ad naseum like equal shares of television revenue is the cat's meow. If so, then why not equally share gate/concession/teeshirts and all other types of revenue?