Who will be the top 5 SEC programs over the NEXT 5 seasons?

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

well that and having several 6th and 7th year players

We really didn’t. I’ve seen this repeated on Ohio state Twitter and I think we had like 3 total and only 1 was starting.

 

[Across The Field]

lol man we don't know if it's a real upgrade til we see what he does on the field.. guy struggled throwing it at times and is streaky..

he could be boom or bust

I feel extremely confident, having watched every snap McCord took, that Howard is an upgrade. I was extremely impressed that he was at his best when the pressure was highest (lit up both Texas and Missouri last year in extremely close games), and his skillset fits our offense well. Call him streaky or whatever, but his best receiver last year was a TE/FB, and I'm fairly confident any WR on his roster would be no better than 7th at OSU this year.

Let's put it this way - the last three starters at OSU were all first round picks after their 3rd year; McCord is at Syracuse after his.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's true. Just makeover your entire roster and you can go from being dead last in the Pac12 to being dead last in the Pac12, all in just one season!

Hey but they do it in style!

 

[ericd7633]

Sure it is. The position that transfers the most is QB ... 70% of QBs don't finish at the school where they started. But the issue we are talking about here is not that - the issue we are discussing is whether a team can win using the portal to make up for poor high school recruiting. That's not what tOSU has done. They have been top 3 over the past 7 years. They are using the portal to supplement their good HS recruiting.

What's considered poor HS recruiting? Out of the top 20 transfer classes(2024) I'd say only three programs have recruited poorly in HS, and all had 1st year HC's last year. Obviously OSU recruits at a high level, but this years team is going to rely heavily on the portal by the nature of getting their QB in it. Same with teams like UW and Texas last year. And Oregon, Ole Miss, FSU and Texas this year.

 

[ericd7633]

You are making my point ... tOSU recruits HS as well as anyone not UGA and Bama. The guys they got will be significant contributors to the good people already there. They are filling gaps with the portal. The teams building through NIL and the portal are Miami, FSU, Tenn, Ole Miss, Colorado, etc. FSU had the most success. Let's see how they do this year with a 20-ish class, and then a bunch of transfers. They had to hit almost 100% on career years for their success last year. Can they do that again?

Yeah, OSU recruits extremely well out of HS. That also lead to them not winning the B1G or making the CFP with their HS recruit at QB. The portal is the reason why, IMO, they will be #1 next year. Their roster isn't being built through the portal, but their team next year will be relying heavily on that since their starting QB was a transfer.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, OSU recruits extremely well out of HS. That also lead to them not winning the B1G or making the CFP with their HS recruit at QB. The portal is the reason why, IMO, they will be #1 next year. Their roster isn't being built through the portal, but their team next year will be relying heavily on that since their starting QB was a transfer.

To be fair, it led us to the CFP in 2022 and a missed FG from a national title against an elite UGA team.

You're positioning it like OSU is bringing in 7-8 new starters from the portal that we badly needed, when QB was really the only main one. Downs will start, Judkins will be RB2, and McLaughlin should start but we're yet to find out.

 

[ericd7633]

To be fair, it led us to the CFP in 2022 and a missed FG from a national title against an elite UGA team.

You're positioning it like OSU is bringing in 7-8 new starters from the portal that we badly needed, when QB was really the only main one. Downs will start, Judkins will be RB2, and McLaughlin should start but we're yet to find out.

Sure, but every team is different. The next team needed to dip into the portal to reach it's full potential.

I'm not positioning like that at all. OSU would obviously still be really good(like last year) and like next year without the portal pieces. Is OSU as reliant as some others? Obviously not, but when you have to dip to he portal for a QB, IMO that means you're relying heavily on it because of the nature of it's position. No different than ND heading into next year.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

First, Saban's class getting gutted is an outlier. That's obvious. Clemson didn't average a top 10 class either, but won for reasons similar to UM ... an experience, senior laden class, with great culture. Per my post above, those are things you need. You didn't get that through the portal. And, it won't result in sustained success as I don't see UM having sustained success in the future with a new HC, new coordinators, losing 80% of your starters, playing a far tougher schedule, etc. If you really look at it, UM was not a portal driven team ... you had solid high school recruiting, great culture, with gaps filled by the portal.

Michigan had one of the best transfer classes last year and had like 4-5 starters from that class. Yes it was culture but we probably don’t win the national title this year without that.

 

[Across The Field]

Sure, but every team is different. The next team needed to dip into the portal to reach it's full potential.

I'm not positioning like that at all. OSU would obviously still be really good(like last year) and like next year without the portal pieces. Is OSU as reliant as some others? Obviously not, but when you have to dip to he portal for a QB, IMO that means you're relying heavily on it because of the nature of it's position. No different than ND heading into next year.

That was my point. You lumped in Oregon (11 transfers), Ole Miss (17), FSU (15) together with OSU, who only has 7. When you say "reliant on the portal", it's more appropriate for teams like A&M, Colorado, Louisville, South Carolina, etc who have like 20+ transfers coming in and are remaking their entire team.

 

[Across The Field]

Michigan had one of the best transfer classes last year and had like 4-5 starters from that class. Yes it was culture but we probably don’t win the national title this year without that.

Weird, I thought you guys were all about "DeVeLoPeD hErE" and not relying on transfers.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Yeah, OSU recruits extremely well out of HS. That also lead to them not winning the B1G or making the CFP with their HS recruit at QB. The portal is the reason why, IMO, they will be #1 next year. Their roster isn't being built through the portal, but their team next year will be relying heavily on that since their starting QB was a transfer.

We appear to be arguing 2 different things. tOSU is not a portal dependent team. They are a portal supplemental team. They ain't Ole Miss, Colorado, FSU, and the like. I don't know how else to say it. It doesn't matter if it's the QB ... Oregon, UW, and Texas all had transfer QBs. Like I said, 70% of QBs transfer. A portal-dependent team is one that relies on the portal to get more and better players then they get from high school recruiting.

The issue I was discussing, maybe you are talking something else, is can a team rely heavily on the portal instead of high school recruiting and have sustained success? The answer to me is, no, they can't. I made post above that stated the 4 or 5 reasons why I think that is true. You can find it.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Sure, but every team is different. The next team needed to dip into the portal to reach it's full potential.

I'm not positioning like that at all. OSU would obviously still be really good(like last year) and like next year without the portal pieces. Is OSU as reliant as some others? Obviously not, but when you have to dip to he portal for a QB, IMO that means you're relying heavily on it because of the nature of it's position. No different than ND heading into next year.

Nobody other than Clemson is not going into the portal for players. The point we seem to differ on is whether you are having to rely on the portal because you high school recruiting is sub-optimal. Teams like UGA, Bama, tOSU, even UM, use the portal to fill gaps - it's not the main way they try to get their best players. They prefer to get the best high school players and develop them, then retain them, and then build their culture around them. Just because on of the transfers might be very important - QB - doesn't mean they are a portal first school. It means they have a gap at that position for some reason. It happens to everyone.

Take UGA. We have been the top recruiting high school classes since 2017. We only take about 4 or 5 portal players per year to fill in. We don't recruit WR well, and prefer to get proven WRs instead of HS prima donnas that cost a lot of NIL. So we look for portal WRs. We need a RB this year because of injuries. And, we had a need for DL so we picked up on in the portal. We tried to supplement our already great DBs by getting a S from Bama, but he chose tOSU.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Weird, I thought you guys were all about "DeVeLoPeD hErE" and not relying on transfers.

We also had quite a few developed 3 star players turn into key pieces of the team. Sanrestil (spelling?) was basically one of the reasons we’re 3-0 against Ohio state

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Yeah, OSU recruits extremely well out of HS. That also lead to them not winning the B1G or making the CFP with their HS recruit at QB. The portal is the reason why, IMO, they will be #1 next year. Their roster isn't being built through the portal, but their team next year will be relying heavily on that since their starting QB was a transfer.

Wether what they do is successful or not isn't what the discussion is about. If you look at the last few NCs, UM, UGA x 2, Bama - they were all grown without the portal as a primary way of acquiring talent.

 

[Across The Field]

We also had quite a few developed 3 star players turn into key pieces of the team. Sanrestil (spelling?) was basically one of the reasons we’re 3-0 against Ohio state

LOL quite a few. The main pieces of your team were either transfers or 4/5 star recruits, don't be dumb.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

We also had quite a few developed 3 star players turn into key pieces of the team. Sanrestil (spelling?) was basically one of the reasons we’re 3-0 against Ohio state

Developing the HS talent you get is a big part of the equation.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Michigan had one of the best transfer classes last year and had like 4-5 starters from that class. Yes it was culture but we probably don’t win the national title this year without that.

Anyone who gets someone from the portal is expecting them to start. You got 4-5, not 12-18. And, when they start, they can be a big part of your success. That doesn't mean that UM is building their team through the portal.

 

[ericd7633]

That was my point. You lumped in Oregon (11 transfers), Ole Miss (17), FSU (15) together with OSU, who only has 7. When you say "reliant on the portal", it's more appropriate for teams like A&M, Colorado, Louisville, South Carolina, etc who have like 20+ transfers coming in and are remaking their entire team.

Yeah, others will be more reliant because of sheer numbers. But that doesn't mean OSU isn't also relying heavily on it because of the position IMO.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, others will be more reliant because of sheer numbers. But that doesn't mean OSU isn't also relying heavily on it because of the position IMO.

We're relying on one player from the portal, not a total makeover. Point being, even if we got Howard, we still wouldn't be thought of as such a contender if not for those guys coming back.

 

[ericd7633]

We appear to be arguing 2 different things. tOSU is not a portal dependent team. They are a portal supplemental team. They ain't Ole Miss, Colorado, FSU, and the like. I don't know how else to say it. It doesn't matter if it's the QB ... Oregon, UW, and Texas all had transfer QBs. Like I said, 70% of QBs transfer. A portal-dependent team is one that relies on the portal to get more and better players then they get from high school recruiting.

The issue I was discussing, maybe you are talking something else, is can a team rely heavily on the portal instead of high school recruiting and have sustained success? The answer to me is, no, they can't. I made post above that stated the 4 or 5 reasons why I think that is true. You can find it.

Yeah, and my point is that if you have to dip into the portal to find your starting QB, that is relying heavily on the portal due to the nature of that position. We've seen what UW was without Penix. Their success directly correlated to the portal, even if 80% of their starters were HS recruits. No different than ND last year and this year.