Who will win Heisman

[ericd7633]

Quite the contrary. OSU and PSU are 2nd and 3rd in the nation in completion percentage allowed, both around 51%. OSU also leads the nation with 4.9 YPA allowed while PSU is 5th at 5.2 YPA. If he goes into those games and puts up those numbers and beats both teams, he's the Heisman frontrunner. What he's done so far right now is impressive, but to say he's the best player in CFB is ridiculous. I'd say Marvin Harrison belongs well ahead of him at this point, among others.

My guess is his stats won't be great(total yards), but he'll be efficient, and Michigan will probably win both somewhat comfortably.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It's highly unlikely he isn't playing in the 4th against OSU and PSU.

Kyle McCord and Drew Allar combined for 37 incompletions on Saturday. JJ McCarthy has 37 incompletions TOTAL through 8 games

 

[Across The Field]

Come on, Jack Tuttle is a 24 year old who couldn't cut it at IU. JJ was an elite HS prospect and a projected top 15 pick. They would obviously look much worse with him at QB.

He and Jayden Denegal are a combined 19/22 for 180 yards and 2 TDs. I'm aware he's not as good as JJ but "obviously look much worse"? Based on what? What defense have they faced that was somehow going to give Tuttle fits?

 

[Across The Field]

Kyle McCord and Drew Allar combined for 37 incompletions on Saturday. JJ McCarthy has 37 incompletions TOTAL through 8 games

Mccord and Allar were facing two of the top pass defenses in the entire nation by basically every metrics. McCarthy's top opposing pass defense has been Rutgers, and he went 15/21 for 214 and 1 TD, and he also had to play well into the 4th of that game, so you may want to check your facts on that one.

 

[navamind]

He and Jayden Denegal are a combined 19/22 for 180 yards and 2 TDs. I'm aware he's not as good as JJ but "obviously look much worse"? Based on what? What defense have they faced that was somehow going to give Tuttle fits?

22 pass attempts is a small sample size, and it's even smaller when you consider it's scattered across several games.

 

[Brutus]

Kyle McCord and Drew Allar combined for 37 incompletions on Saturday. JJ McCarthy has 37 incompletions TOTAL through 8 games

Let’s wait until JJ plays a team with a pulse before we crown him

 

[Across The Field]

22 pass attempts is a small sample size, and it's even smaller when you consider it's scattered across several games.

Oh I know, I was moreso pointing out that I find it hard to believe michigan's offense would "obviously look much worse".

 

[Brutus]

This guy is best in the country

 

[ericd7633]

He and Jayden Denegal are a combined 19/22 for 180 yards and 2 TDs. I'm aware he's not as good as JJ but "obviously look much worse"? Based on what? What defense have they faced that was somehow going to give Tuttle fits?

Tuttle isn't a good QB. Look at his entire career. If not for Covid, his football career would be over.

They haven't faced great defenses, but Tuttle isn't a good QB.

 

[Across The Field]

Tuttle isn't a good QB. Look at his entire career. If not for Covid, his football career would be over.

They haven't faced great defenses, but Tuttle isn't a good QB.

I've never said he is. I'm saying their offense doesn't need one to function. He wouldn't look at good as JJ if he had started and played every game, but I'm more than willing to bet they still win all of their games comfortably.

 

[huskers1217]

Jeff sims

End of thread.

@gobigred this thread

this aged well

 

[ericd7633]

Mccord and Allar were facing two of the top pass defenses in the entire nation by basically every metrics. McCarthy's top opposing pass defense has been Rutgers, and he went 15/21 for 214 and 1 TD, and he also had to play well into the 4th of that game, so you may want to check your facts on that one.

Which translated to one of the best 20 games by a QB this season according to QBR.

 

[navamind]

Which translated to one of the best 20 games by a QB this season according to QBR.

10.2 Y/A versus a defense that's averaging 5.21 on the season, the 4th best in the NCAA. Also the 20th best completion percentage allowed

 

[ericd7633]

I've never said he is. I'm saying their offense doesn't need one to function. He wouldn't look at good as JJ if he had started and played every game, but I'm more than willing to bet they still win all of their games comfortably.

Their offense would be much worse with Tuttle. Sure they'd be undefeated, more than likely, but JJ takes this teams ceiling up a level, and frankly they are performing as well as some of the elite teams we've seen lately (2020 Bama, 2019 LSU).

 

[ericd7633]

10.2 Y/A versus a defense that's averaging 5.21 on the season, the 4th best in the NCAA. Also the 20th best completion percentage allowed

Yeah, I don't understand bringing that game up as a knock on JJ. He was elite that game. JJ has had one bad game all year.

 

[NinerSpartan]

michigan could very well beat Penn State and Ohio State, but if JJ isn't the driving force, I can't imagine he's going to be taken seriously. The problem is michigan would likely still be right where they are right now if Tuttle was starting.

You need to capitalize the m in your father's name.

 

[navamind]

I've never said he is. I'm saying their offense doesn't need one to function. He wouldn't look at good as JJ if he had started and played every game, but I'm more than willing to bet they still win all of their games comfortably.

That's a hell of a take. Even with an elite running game, you need to at least be able to have some ability to throw the ball to keep defenses from loading up the box. And, well, to take advantage.

Go back to 2021-22 and see the difference between McNamara and McCarthy. Cade did a good job managing Michigan's offenses to help get them to the playoffs, but his inability to make big throws and even extend plays was an issue. Not only that, but defenses also have to account for McCarthy's legs.

 

[ericd7633]

This guy is best in the country

He is the best player, but rarely does it go to the best player or a WR. It took INSANE numbers for Devonta Smith to win the Heisman and he still almost didn't. And Harrison won't come close to matching what Smith did. But he's still the best player in CFB, regardless of position.

 

[Across The Field]

That's a hell of a take. Even with an elite running game, you need to at least be able to have some ability to throw the ball to keep defenses from loading up the box. And, well, to take advantage.

Go back to 2021-22 and see the difference between McNamara and McCarthy. Cade did a good job managing Michigan's offenses to help get them to the playoffs, but his inability to make big throws and even extend plays was an issue. Not only that, but defenses also have to account for McCarthy's legs.

Yes, I understand all of that. That said, michigan has had a decisive advantage along the OL vs anyone they've played, so it hasn't taken some superhuman QB to get them to comfortable wins. He threw 3 INTs vs. a pathetic BG team and they still ended up winning by 25. That's my point - up to this point in the year, they've played nobody that even remotely challenges them from a skill or coaching standpoint, so I'm not ready to crown JJ.

 

[ericd7633]

That's a hell of a take. Even with an elite running game, you need to at least be able to have some ability to throw the ball to keep defenses from loading up the box. And, well, to take advantage.

Go back to 2021-22 and see the difference between McNamara and McCarthy. Cade did a good job managing Michigan's offenses to help get them to the playoffs, but his inability to make big throws and even extend plays was an issue. Not only that, but defenses also have to account for McCarthy's legs.

2021 is a great example. Michigan was stacked on offense that year(Joe Moore Oline winner, loaded RB room with Haskins, Corum and Edwards, an NFL TE and comparable WR unit). But McNamara was more of a game manager and couldn't lift the offense. This Michigan offense is performing at a much higher level than that one did.