2022 Season Thread

[Illustrious Potentate]

It's not a gimmick. It's an attempt to make the product on the track more exciting, interesting, and competitive. Because once upon a time, the team who could afford to hire 250 engineers, skirt the rule book, and put NASA-quality parts in every system of the car won the race and the championship. Usually by landslides. Races weren't so much won by the driver on the track on raceday...they were run by the shop on Tuesday. Dale Sr, Darrell, Rusty, or Richard driving to the checkers was a mere formality in many cases.

The current format absolutely rewards domination. Moreso than before. If a driver/team can rattle off numerous wins throughout the season, the bonus they get come playoff time is tremendously difficult for the competition to overcome. To add to the intrigue, you don't even have to win races to gain a playoff advantage, because winning stages earns you a bonus point as well. So the races within the races (stages) adds a very healthy amount of intrigue that makes some of these long races more interesting.

Also, we weren't robbed of shit. The best championship battle? How about a tie breaker between Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards in 2011? How about nowadays, a team/driver has to perform consistently throughout the ENTIRE season, up to and including the final race, to bring home a championship. NASCAR has a difficult task of having to compete for viewers with traditional stick and ball fans. What does your average fan want to see? A contest that goes down to the wire. A contest that requires every game (race) to be competed and fought for. A climactic ending where yes, indeed - a bad game, a bad night, a bad race does in fact spoil the season, no matter how good it was. The New England Patriots went undefeated, and went to the Superbowl in a season where everyone thought they had it locked. And no doubt, they were still the better team, even in that Superbowl. But they had to play the game, and they had to perform in order to take home the Lombardi, and Eli Manning and the Giants had something to say about that. And the sports world LOVED it. NASCAR won't please EVERYONE, but they need to please as many as they possibly can, and the way to do that is to make every lap of every race matter as much as possible. They have done a pretty outstanding job, given the difficulty of the difference between racing and stick/ball sports, in doing that.

In the 90's and early 2000's fans writ large complained about the boring nature of "points racing". Drivers going out there being happy with a 9th place finish. Wins weren't so much a big deal, just consistently be "above average" and you are ok points wise. It was incredibly boring on a week to week basis. I can't tell you how happy I am that those days are gone. They sucked. Welcome to another outrageously long 1.5 mile oval that we already know only one of maybe 3 drivers has a chance to win, and low and behold the winner will win by 12 seconds with a grand total of 8 cars on the lead lap. Whooooooo that was exciting! But some (trust me -- only SOME) ate it up because the winner was their beloved Wallace, Waltrip, or Earnhardt. Yawn. Garbage.

If you don't think the current format hasn't produced infinitely better racing, more intrigue, more drama, more "can't take a race off" type of product, then there is no way you're an actual racing fan. You're a "i want my driver to dominate and blast the competition" fan, but you aren't a racing fan. It's not possible. NASCAR racing over the past several years and gotten increasingly better. If they could just stop going overboard with road courses and infields, it'd be as close to perfect as you can hope for in this age. And yet there's still curmudgeons here like yourself who inexplicably beg for the days of the NASCAR nap to return. Pish motherfkn posh on that.

Buddy, the 80’s were before my time, I’m a 90’s kid, but there were single team owner-drivers that were winning races and competing for and winning championships.

Comparing auto racing to stick and ball sports is a non starter dumb argument.

It’s a gimmick. It’s Mickey Mouse bullshit that never should have been allowed to be put in place. It makes NASCAR look bad to the rest of the racing world and rightfully so.

Already said stages are fine.

The Stewart-Edward’s deal wasn’t legit, Stewart never should have had a shot at a title and I say this as a Tony Stewart fan. That was Carl’s title, same as 2008. The dumb format lead to a great driver and fan favorite’s early retirement.

NASCAR’s main problem is their lack of personality from the drivers. Even Harvick and the Busch brothers have toned it down in their old age.

And it also didn’t help that for most of the 21st century, the most popular driver was far from the best, and also wasn’t much on the personality front.

You can tweak the points system to give more points to wins, but winning at Talladega, and then averaging a 25th place finish in the first 26 races and then going on a run in the playoffs shouldn’t crown anyone champion.

The full season format is used in every other racing league in the world for a reason. It’s common sense.

Trim the playoff field down to 5, determine the drivers by regular season points, and go back to a chase format from there, and I have less of an issue.

It’s a joke, it’s a gimmick. It’s Mickey Mouse bullshit. Chase Elliott got a Mickey Mouse title in 2020. It’s likely he’s gonna get screwed out of a legit title this year.

And dominating a season means nothing of you have a flat tire in the last race of the season, since it’s the only race that really even matters now. 35 wins and a second place finish on the season.

I’m glad Matt Crafton exposed the retarded system when he went winless and won the Truck title a few years back. Since I place zero value on Harvick’s 2014 “title” since it’s fake, I wish Ryan Newman could have won the first playoff by finishing 8th while the other 3 had problems

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Interesting stat -

If you look at the 60 tightest margins of victory all-time in NASCAR, only 7...yes, that's right, 7 - were from pre-2000. That is staggering.

Electronic scoring wasn’t a thing until the early 90’s. And of that top 60, how many were at plate tracks?

 

[Y.O.M.]

Electronic scoring wasn’t a thing until the early 90’s. And of that top 60, how many were at plate tracks

Fair enough, although you surely wouldn't attempt to argue that average margin of victory in the 80's and 90's compares to 2000-2022. I mean, it's just not an argument you could win.

Also, yes...many/most were at plate tracks. No doubt. But there's a healthy representation from Atlanta, Texas, Charlotte, Darlington, and Phoenix in there.

Also worth noting is that I believe every single race this season has a MOV of less than 1.4 seconds, most being less than a second.

That has to count for something, right? Right? Isn't closer, tighter racing down to the final lap with tight margins of victory what a racing fan wants to see?

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Fair enough, although you surely wouldn't attempt to argue that average margin of victory in the 80's and 90's compares to 2000-2022. I mean, it's just not an argument you could win.

Also, yes...many/most were at plate tracks. No doubt. But there's a healthy representation from Atlanta, Texas, Charlotte, Darlington, and Phoenix in there.

Also worth noting is that I believe every single race this season has a MOV of less than 1.4 seconds, most being less than a second.

That has to count for something, right? Right? Isn't closer, tighter racing down to the final lap with tight margins of victory what a racing fan wants to see?

I’ve got zero issue with the on track product this year. I like the new cars and I’m glad that stupid low horsepower, high down force package is hopefully gone forever. My only real gripe is the championship format.

But I was at the Spring Atlanta race in 2000 for my 9th birthday when Earnhardt edged Labonte. Was at the same race the next year for my 10th birthday when Harvick edged Gordon.

Those were in the early 00’s, but pre Chase. Wasn’t there, but the famous Craven over Busch finish was there too. To me, the best racing was in that late 90’s/early 00’s era. It’s back on the right track now, but the on track product suffered the last few years prior to this one.

But Harvick just won by like 4 seconds yesterday

 

[Y.O.M.]

I’ve got zero issue with the on track product this year. I like the new cars and I’m glad that stupid low horsepower, high down force package is hopefully gone forever. My only real gripe is the championship format.

But I was at the Spring Atlanta race in 2000 for my 9th birthday when Earnhardt edged Labonte. Was at the same race the next year for my 10th birthday when Harvick edged Gordon.

Those were in the early 00’s, but pre Chase. Wasn’t there, but the famous Craven over Busch finish was there too. To me, the best racing was in that late 90’s/early 00’s era. It’s back on the right track now, but the on track product suffered the last few years prior to this one.

But Harvick just won by like 4 seconds yesterday

I couldn't even watch yesterday because life. I was happy to see he won, but having not watched the race I have no idea the circumstances. Considering they haven't had a ton of speed this year, I imagine the win was the result of some kind of outside the box strategy call, and if my assumption is correct, that could explain the abnormal MOV. Because other than yesterday, the "less than 1.4 seconds MOV" holds true.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I couldn't even watch yesterday because life. I was happy to see he won, but having not watched the race I have no idea the circumstances. Considering they haven't had a ton of speed this year, I imagine the win was the result of some kind of outside the box strategy call, and if my assumption is correct, that could explain the abnormal MOV. Because other than yesterday, the "less than 1.4 seconds MOV" holds true.

It was luck. Green flag pit cycle for the final stop of the race. Harvick does his pit stop and the caution comes out before he loses a lap in the cycle. He’s the only lead lap car that doesn’t have to pit and is handed the lead. Denny Hamlin had the fastest car on the track, but got a penalty and had to restart from the rear and didn’t have enough time to get back. Harvick was solidly in the top 10 all race, but was never a threat to win before he was gifted that track position.

He also go lucky on the last restart that Joey Logano was able to get ahead of Bubba Wallace. Wallace was also faster than Harvick, but Logano held him up and the gap was too big to overcome by the time Wallace finally cleared him.

Harvick was running 6th before he made his final pit stop behind Hamlin, Wallace, Bell and the two Trackhouse guys. Trackhouse guys pitted, Chastain was a lap down when Bell wrecked himself off Chastain’s nose. Suarez had to get the free pass, Hamlin got a pit penalty and Wallace was trapped behind a slower Logano. A perfect storm.

 

[Fish]

I couldn't even watch yesterday because life. I was happy to see he won, but having not watched the race I have no idea the circumstances. Considering they haven't had a ton of speed this year, I imagine the win was the result of some kind of outside the box strategy call, and if my assumption is correct, that could explain the abnormal MOV. Because other than yesterday, the "less than 1.4 seconds MOV" holds true.

Got caught in the pits when the yellow came out, managed to not go down a lap. Got front row on the restart when other cars pitted under yellow.
Beat Bubba on the restart and when everyone started racing each other behind him, he just checked out.

He didn't come out of nowhere, he was in or around the top 10 most all day.

 

[Y.O.M.]

It was luck. Green flag pit cycle for the final stop of the race. Harvick does his pit stop and the caution comes out before he loses a lap in the cycle. He’s the only lead lap car that doesn’t have to pit and is handed the lead. Denny Hamlin had the fastest car on the track, but got a penalty and had to restart from the rear and didn’t have enough time to get back. Harvick was solidly in the top 10 all race, but was never a threat to win before he was gifted that track position.

He also go lucky on the last restart that Joey Logano was able to get ahead of Bubba Wallace. Wallace was also faster than Harvick, but Logano held him up and the gap was too big to overcome by the time Wallace finally cleared him.

Harvick was running 6th before he made his final pit stop behind Hamlin, Wallace, Bell and the two Trackhouse guys. Trackhouse guys pitted, Chastain was a lap down when Bell wrecked himself off Chastain’s nose. Suarez had to get the free pass, Hamlin got a pit penalty and Wallace was trapped behind a slower Logano. A perfect storm.

Story of his life. That dude has more penalties than any driver I have EVER watched. I've been watching a long time. Dude shoots himself in the foot so often it's head spinning...and I love it. I'm a Hamlin hater and I love seeing him fail.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Story of his life. That dude has more penalties than any driver I have EVER watched. I've been watching a long time. Dude shoots himself in the foot so often it's head spinning...and I love it. I'm a Hamlin hater and I love seeing him fail.

I hate him too, but in his defense, that was on the crew not him. Too many men over the wall

 

[Y.O.M.]

I hate him too, but in his defense, that was on the crew not him. Too many men over the wall

Ah. Well it's usually him, so hopefully he didn't go all bananas on the crew.

I'm not a SHR or a Harvick guy, per se. But Harvick's grit and old school persona does resonate with me, and I think NASCAR is better when he's competitive. So regardless how fluky it may or may not have been, I'm a big fan of him being in the playoffs to compete. I think we all know he won't do a whole lot, as SHR is way behind the curve right now, but on grit alone Harvick will make himself a difficult "out".

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Ah. Well it's usually him, so hopefully he didn't go all bananas on the crew.

I'm not a SHR or a Harvick guy, per se. But Harvick's grit and old school persona does resonate with me, and I think NASCAR is better when he's competitive. So regardless how fluky it may or may not have been, I'm a big fan of him being in the playoffs to compete. I think we all know he won't do a whole lot, as SHR is way behind the curve right now, but on grit alone Harvick will make himself a difficult "out".

An over the hill Harvick is still the top driver at SHR. Briscoe got a win this year, but also only has 4 top 10 finishes. Almirola got a win last year, but was otherwise terrible and has fallen off a cliff after a solid start to this season. Cole Custer has two top ten finishes in the last 2 years combined.

But I was a Dale Sr fan as a kid, I became a Harvick fan after Sr died. Being in the stands for his first win helped. I’m still an RCR fan at heart, but I stuck with Harvick when he moved to SHR. Tony Stewart was my second favorite driver his whole career.

Harvick has been decent this year, just hasn’t had winning speed, but he was still greatly outperforming his teammates and was in the top 10 in points before yesterday

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I hope someone below 25th in points wins at Daytona and and Truex and Blaney both miss out on the playoffs despite being third and fourth in the drivers standings. Run good and consistent all season, but lose out on a spot because the guy 27th in points won a plate race.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The chase fabricates close championships. Late unnecessary yellows has fabricated close finishes.
Funny YOM mentions consistency. It was because of drivers being consistent that the chase was created. Instead of a driver earning their Championship, they were created a tournament which is a joke. All because they were trying to replicate the Alan Kulwicki Championship year in & year out. They ruined the sport of "racing" in the name of entertainment. If a team earned the championship with a couple races to go so be it. They "earned" it. Unclimactic or not. we used to watch all the points positions. Is your driver fighting for 6th through 8th spots? Maybe 11th or 12th? Trying to sneak into the top ten? Now it is only about the win. Nascar has made points, irrelevant. Hell you dont have to race all the races & you can be champion. Teams used to race for every point they could gain every single week. Nowadays get a doctors note & fuck it. Take a month off & go win a championship. For 26 weeks. Points dont matter.
Nascar was my favorite sport by far. Now corporate greed has ruined the sport I love. Playoff systems has no place in auto racing. But here it is.

Make no mistake. The Chase for the Chumpionship is a joke to the sport. It is for entertainment value. Not for legitimacy. Nascar has become the WWE of Auto racing. With their fabricated outcomes.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I hope someone below 25th in points wins at Daytona and and Truex and Blaney both miss out on the playoffs despite being third and fourth in the drivers standings. Run good and consistent all season, but lose out on a spot because the guy 27th in points won a plate race.

& a guy who did not compete in all the races.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

& a guy who did not compete in all the races.

You also have guys like Briscoe and Cindric who have been wildly inconsistent all year, but are locked in because of an early season win when teams were still figuring out the new cars

 

[Fish]

& a guy who did not compete in all the races.

I think you have to compete in all the races unless you have a waiver like Kurt Busch is getting.

 

[Fish]

The chase fabricates close championships. Late unnecessary yellows has fabricated close finishes.
Funny YOM mentions consistency. It was because of drivers being consistent that the chase was created. Instead of a driver earning their Championship, they were created a tournament which is a joke. All because they were trying to replicate the Alan Kulwicki Championship year in & year out. They ruined the sport of "racing" in the name of entertainment. If a team earned the championship with a couple races to go so be it. They "earned" it. Unclimactic or not. we used to watch all the points positions. Is your driver fighting for 6th through 8th spots? Maybe 11th or 12th? Trying to sneak into the top ten? Now it is only about the win. Nascar has made points, irrelevant. Hell you dont have to race all the races & you can be champion. Teams used to race for every point they could gain every single week. Nowadays get a doctors note & fuck it. Take a month off & go win a championship. For 26 weeks. Points dont matter.
Nascar was my favorite sport by far. Now corporate greed has ruined the sport I love. Playoff systems has no place in auto racing. But here it is.

Make no mistake. The Chase for the Chumpionship is a joke to the sport. It is for entertainment value. Not for legitimacy. Nascar has become the WWE of Auto racing. With their fabricated outcomes.

I remember when the banquet was a big deal and making it on the stage was a big deal.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

The chase fabricates close championships. Late unnecessary yellows has fabricated close finishes.
Funny YOM mentions consistency. It was because of drivers being consistent that the chase was created. Instead of a driver earning their Championship, they were created a tournament which is a joke. All because they were trying to replicate the Alan Kulwicki Championship year in & year out. They ruined the sport of "racing" in the name of entertainment. If a team earned the championship with a couple races to go so be it. They "earned" it. Unclimactic or not. we used to watch all the points positions. Is your driver fighting for 6th through 8th spots? Maybe 11th or 12th? Trying to sneak into the top ten? Now it is only about the win. Nascar has made points, irrelevant. Hell you dont have to race all the races & you can be champion. Teams used to race for every point they could gain every single week. Nowadays get a doctors note & fuck it. Take a month off & go win a championship. For 26 weeks. Points dont matter.
Nascar was my favorite sport by far. Now corporate greed has ruined the sport I love. Playoff systems has no place in auto racing. But here it is.

Make no mistake. The Chase for the Chumpionship is a joke to the sport. It is for entertainment value. Not for legitimacy. Nascar has become the WWE of Auto racing. With their fabricated outcomes.

100% agreed, other than to NASCAR’s credit, they have pretty well stopped the phantom debris cautions. Have no doubt that a few years ago, there would have been a caution when that car blew a tire with like 5 to go yesterday and Harvick having an insurmountable lead, but they let em race.

They started that phantom debris BS and having a quick trigger with the yellow flag in general when Kasey Kahne looked to be a lock to get his first career win and a another car blew a motor and put oil all over the track, but they didn’t throw a caution, Kahne hit the oil and crashed along with a few other front runners. They overreacted.

But they still need to stop throwing cautions for single car spins at the back of the pack when the car is rolling and not in harms way. And as I said earlier, I’m ok with stages and drivers getting something for running good early on but having an issue late, but there’s no need for a caution at the end of the stage, give out points and keep it going. The two stage breaks easily add an extra 20 minutes to each race

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I remember when the banquet was a big deal and making it on the stage was a big deal.

I remember being happy when Dale Sr would have a good points day.

 

[Fish]

100% agreed, other than to NASCAR’s credit, they have pretty well stopped the phantom debris cautions. Have no doubt that a few years ago, there would have been a caution when that car blew a tire with like 5 to go yesterday and Harvick having an insurmountable lead, but they let em race.

They started that phantom debris BS and having a quick trigger with the yellow flag in general when Kasey Kahne looked to be a lock to get his first career win and a another car blew a motor and put oil all over the track, but they didn’t throw a caution, Kahne hit the oil and crashed along with a few other front runners. They overreacted.

But they still need to stop throwing cautions for single car spins at the back of the pack when the car is rolling and not in harms way. And as I said earlier, I’m ok with stages and drivers getting something for running good early on but having an issue late, but there’s no need for a caution at the end of the stage, give out points and keep it going. The two stage breaks easily add an extra 20 minutes to each race

I thought phantom cautions were created when Jeff Gordon needed to catch up.