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It is pretty funny when you think about it. Kelsey has a massive connection to Mack, Xavier and Wake.
ACC Basketball
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It is pretty funny when you think about it. Kelsey has a massive connection to Mack, Xavier and Wake.
It's Game Day Bitches!
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Steve Forbes spoke at my rotary club today
a recap. not going to make it very Wake-specific, because he talked about a lot of issues that coaches/programs are facing.
tagging the cbb hardcores
@ericd7633 @Mr.Hockey @gobigred @duckboy33 @Deep Creek @jontaejones @wildturkey @fishinabarrel @RubinRock @Grant Ward @douggie
-coaches hate the current landscape. NIL has made things much more difficult. he can't speak for anyone else, but he doubts he will coach as long as Boeheim or K did. mostly due to NIL.
-the allure of college coaching is building relationships. with NIL, it makes that part more challenging and less rewarding. he always called his players family. his wife recently looked at him and said you should start saying "me." He says it hurt his feelings, but she wasn't wrong.
-his favorite referee is Roger Ayres. He likes TV Teddy for road games, because Teddy likes to piss off the home crowd. Does not like him for home games.
-nearly every ACC starter makes at least 200k through NIL. if any made less than that he would be surprised. There's a few guys taking home more than 1 million. It's a combination of collectives and actual NIL deals like advertising, commercials, etc.
-coaches are annoyed about the lack of transparency for NET. they don't know what the formula is and its frustrating because their jobs depend on it.
-coaches hate that they have to be both the coach and the GM. He said there's a reason why those are two different positions in the NBA. they aren't there to make business deals. they're there to build programs, young men and win games. the game has changed now. it's tougher to build team chemistry when one guy makes 750k, one guy makes 400k, one guy makes 200k and other players are getting peanuts. The guys that don't have real deals are naturally going to be miffed when the 400k guy scores 2 points on 10 shots. "Why is this guy getting paid money to miss shots?" In the NBA it isn't an issue because there are contracts and it's all agreed upon. That isn't the case here.
-he hates the additions of Cal, Stanford and SMU into the ACC. It doesn't make sense to fly to from North Carolina to California on a week night to play a basketball game. he also think its retarded that Maryland is in the Big Ten.
-he loves college football, but thinks they should play in their own sandbox. he believes that college conferences shouldn't be based on football.
-He was asked about the FSU lawsuit after the meeting. "Everyone he has talked to has said that the GOR is ironclad. The only way FSU is getting out is if there is a massive buyout that is agreed upon and it's doubtful it would be worth it for FSU at that point" He also made it clear that things change all the time, so naturally, you'll hear tomorrow that FSU can leave with no issue.
-Duke guy asked a question and Forbes said he has no issues w/ Duke. He's good friends w/ Scheyer and thinks he's a heck of a coach. UNC and NCSU were referenced numerous times during his talk, but he never mentioned Davis or Keatts.
-he talked about Boeheim. He says he'll always be a trivia question for Boeheim. Boeheim got both his last win and last loss vs Wake. After the final game, he asked Boeheim, "You know what I was doing when you coached your first game @ Syracuse?" Boeheim looked at him confused and asked, "What?" Forbes replied with, "I was in the fourth grade."
-he talked about the Greensboro Coliseum and how he has mixed feelings about it. He loves it for the ACC tournament, but UNCG plays there and he had many heated battles with UNCG while he was East Tennessee's coach. During his final game there at East Tenn, he got tossed. During a timeout, he talked to a ref after a questionable call. He told the ref, "The devil asked God if he wanted to play someone basketball. God was confused because God had the best players and the best coaches. The Devil then reminded him...yeah..but I have all the referees!" The ref immediately tossed him.
That's all I can remember.
Wake specific stuff:
-he told the AD before the season that we were going to find out who in the program values a Wake degree. He had two players that weren't going to get a lot of PT, aren't future NBA guys but are close enough to earning a degree where it would make sense for them to stay another year. They both transferred. I talked to a Wake guy after the meeting and he said that Forbes was referring to Matt Marsh and Zach Keller. Surprised. I assumed that Forbes encouraged them to go elsewhere because they suck.
-was a trying season for him because his wife suffered three strokes last August. he wasn't able to spend as much time with his team this past season b/c he acted as his wife's caregiver. his wife is in decent shape now, but it was tough during the season.
-he said this part before the meeting: Andrew Carr and his parents were problematic whiners. He's not too sad that Carr left the team. Made it sound like Carr thought he should have been the #1 option. He also wasn't very complimentary of Boopie Miller. pretty much said that Boopie was too busy auditioning for a big NIL number. doesn't hurt his feelings that he's gone, either. he loves Hunter Sallis.
-more on ACC expansion and why he hates the new additions so much: He claims Wake players do real school. they don't do online classes, they have to be in-person. There will be times where the team gets back to campus at 5 AM and certain players will have to do a presentation in class at 9. He also said that he'll get a few players from the portal each year that had never attended a second of in-person class before they attended Wake.
Pretty funny and charismatic guy.
a recap. not going to make it very Wake-specific, because he talked about a lot of issues that coaches/programs are facing.
tagging the cbb hardcores
@ericd7633 @Mr.Hockey @gobigred @duckboy33 @Deep Creek @jontaejones @wildturkey @fishinabarrel @RubinRock @Grant Ward @douggie
-coaches hate the current landscape. NIL has made things much more difficult. he can't speak for anyone else, but he doubts he will coach as long as Boeheim or K did. mostly due to NIL.
-the allure of college coaching is building relationships. with NIL, it makes that part more challenging and less rewarding. he always called his players family. his wife recently looked at him and said you should start saying "me." He says it hurt his feelings, but she wasn't wrong.
-his favorite referee is Roger Ayres. He likes TV Teddy for road games, because Teddy likes to piss off the home crowd. Does not like him for home games.
-nearly every ACC starter makes at least 200k through NIL. if any made less than that he would be surprised. There's a few guys taking home more than 1 million. It's a combination of collectives and actual NIL deals like advertising, commercials, etc.
-coaches are annoyed about the lack of transparency for NET. they don't know what the formula is and its frustrating because their jobs depend on it.
-coaches hate that they have to be both the coach and the GM. He said there's a reason why those are two different positions in the NBA. they aren't there to make business deals. they're there to build programs, young men and win games. the game has changed now. it's tougher to build team chemistry when one guy makes 750k, one guy makes 400k, one guy makes 200k and other players are getting peanuts. The guys that don't have real deals are naturally going to be miffed when the 400k guy scores 2 points on 10 shots. "Why is this guy getting paid money to miss shots?" In the NBA it isn't an issue because there are contracts and it's all agreed upon. That isn't the case here.
-he hates the additions of Cal, Stanford and SMU into the ACC. It doesn't make sense to fly to from North Carolina to California on a week night to play a basketball game. he also think its retarded that Maryland is in the Big Ten.
-he loves college football, but thinks they should play in their own sandbox. he believes that college conferences shouldn't be based on football.
-He was asked about the FSU lawsuit after the meeting. "Everyone he has talked to has said that the GOR is ironclad. The only way FSU is getting out is if there is a massive buyout that is agreed upon and it's doubtful it would be worth it for FSU at that point" He also made it clear that things change all the time, so naturally, you'll hear tomorrow that FSU can leave with no issue.
-Duke guy asked a question and Forbes said he has no issues w/ Duke. He's good friends w/ Scheyer and thinks he's a heck of a coach. UNC and NCSU were referenced numerous times during his talk, but he never mentioned Davis or Keatts.
-he talked about Boeheim. He says he'll always be a trivia question for Boeheim. Boeheim got both his last win and last loss vs Wake. After the final game, he asked Boeheim, "You know what I was doing when you coached your first game @ Syracuse?" Boeheim looked at him confused and asked, "What?" Forbes replied with, "I was in the fourth grade."
-he talked about the Greensboro Coliseum and how he has mixed feelings about it. He loves it for the ACC tournament, but UNCG plays there and he had many heated battles with UNCG while he was East Tennessee's coach. During his final game there at East Tenn, he got tossed. During a timeout, he talked to a ref after a questionable call. He told the ref, "The devil asked God if he wanted to play someone basketball. God was confused because God had the best players and the best coaches. The Devil then reminded him...yeah..but I have all the referees!" The ref immediately tossed him.
That's all I can remember.
Wake specific stuff:
-he told the AD before the season that we were going to find out who in the program values a Wake degree. He had two players that weren't going to get a lot of PT, aren't future NBA guys but are close enough to earning a degree where it would make sense for them to stay another year. They both transferred. I talked to a Wake guy after the meeting and he said that Forbes was referring to Matt Marsh and Zach Keller. Surprised. I assumed that Forbes encouraged them to go elsewhere because they suck.
-was a trying season for him because his wife suffered three strokes last August. he wasn't able to spend as much time with his team this past season b/c he acted as his wife's caregiver. his wife is in decent shape now, but it was tough during the season.
-he said this part before the meeting: Andrew Carr and his parents were problematic whiners. He's not too sad that Carr left the team. Made it sound like Carr thought he should have been the #1 option. He also wasn't very complimentary of Boopie Miller. pretty much said that Boopie was too busy auditioning for a big NIL number. doesn't hurt his feelings that he's gone, either. he loves Hunter Sallis.
-more on ACC expansion and why he hates the new additions so much: He claims Wake players do real school. they don't do online classes, they have to be in-person. There will be times where the team gets back to campus at 5 AM and certain players will have to do a presentation in class at 9. He also said that he'll get a few players from the portal each year that had never attended a second of in-person class before they attended Wake.
Pretty funny and charismatic guy.
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There’s going to be a lot of coaches like him that burn out with the NIL and transfer shit. There’ll always be someone willing to fill in that role, but I’d be surprised if we see as many coaches lasting longer into their careers. Burnout will be much more common. And this environment I think is going to hinder a lot of player development.
Just as a side note. My Father was Athletic Director at the Winston-Salem Boys Club when I was just a toddler. My Dad told me it was a requirement for every scholarship athlete at WF to attend a class helping out at the Boys Club. That would have been in the 1960's. Back then there would be hundreds of kids there just down the street from Bowman Gray Stadium. I remember a few of the WF players would babysit me, taught me to swim, and generally watched me while my Dad worked. Selfless athletes are harder to find nowadays.
Good recap. Thanks.
I've said for years there should be football conferences and everything else conferences. It wouldn't be that hard.
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Good stuff. Might as well give it straight because whiny kids are gonna transfer either way.
I think NIL might not have been that bad if the one year transfer rule hadn't come in with it.
That totally killed it
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Rotary club? NEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRD
Interesting stuff tho. Think he's a little off on the every ACC starter making 200k stuff. Basically our entire team transferred because our NIL situation sucks so bad they couldn't pay anyone.
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Good stuff. Just some things that stood out to me:
Agree with his stance on the NET. I wish there was more transparency with it. I'd be curious what moves the needle more; beating a top 15 team by 3, or beating a 300+ team by 30. You obviously get credit for a good win with the committee, but what raises your NET more?
Adding the 3 extra schools is ridiculous, but I can understand why the league did it from their perspective, but it was still dumb. How dumb is it that BC vs. SMU and Cuse vs. Cal is now a conference game? I guess no different than Rutgers vs. UCLA and Minnesota vs. USC being a conference game though. Realignment has definitely sucked.
That's interesting about his stance on Carr and Miller. My guess is Forbes will be able to land adequate if not better replacements.
Also the ACCT should forever be at the Coliseum.
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yeah, i immediately thought about VT when he made that comment. think his comment revealed that every starter on Wake's roster made 200k+ and he assumed that most schools have it like that.
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if you're going to do the quad system, then just use kenpom ratings.
agreed about expanded conferences. at some point, gotta think football media contracts are going to be between schools and networks.
tbh, when i first heard his comments about Carr + Miller, I thought it sounded like a convenient story. but tbh, Carr's off-season was full of twist and turns. initially, the word was you don't have to worry about Carr leaving, he's being well taken care of w/ NIL. then it was "Carr is probably going to leave for Villanova. he wants to play closer to home." then it was "Carr is staying put." and then finally he left, lol.
thing with Miller is that his family thinks he's worth more than 200k. i have heard they want at least 500k. and it's not gonna happen. he's a good scorer, but is a defensive liability and has poor court vision. if he's not careful, he's going to end up at a mid-major and will make less than the 200k he was guaranteed to have if he stayed @ Wake.
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Canka is finally going portaling. shocked it took this long. makes me think Forbes kind of nudged him out to make room for more players.