Big Ten Basketball

Kburjr said:
In Archie's defense, Indiana was a dumpster fire when he got there.
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They were a year removed from winning the B1G. I wouldn't exactly call that a dumpster fire. Archie inherited a decent team. His 1st season was his best season in the B1G. The B1G sucked that year, but still.
 
ericd7633 said:
They were a year removed from winning the B1G. I wouldn't exactly call that a dumpster fire. Archie inherited a decent team. His 1st season was his best season in the B1G. The B1G sucked that year, but still.
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Crean blew that up. The place was empty.
 
ericd7633 said:
They were a year removed from winning the B1G. I wouldn't exactly call that a dumpster fire. Archie inherited a decent team. His 1st season was his best season in the B1G. The B1G sucked that year, but still.
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yeah, but that was his worst team at Indiana.

Went from #71 -> #52 -> #34 -> #46

things were trending in the right direction, but this season was a step in the wrong direction and Indiana fancies themselves as a blue blood so Archie had to go. I would have given him one more year, but obviously I don't know the program's internal details. fwiw, I also wouldn't have fired Crean in 2017.
 
Kburjr said:
Crean blew that up. The place was empty.
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They had one guy transfer out of the program, a dude who avg 1.8 ppg, and IU was still able to keep all the players Crean recruited to go there. I'm not saying he walked into a situation that was great or anything, but it was MUCH, MUCH better than the situation Crean walked into. They had 3 guys declare for the draft, two of them got drafted, and the one shouldn't have gone, but that happens all the time. Honestly, Crean probably keeps his job if OG doesn't get injured in his last year there because he probably has an overall better record.
 
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Hitman Hart said:
yeah, but that was his worst team at Indiana.

Went from #71 -> #52 -> #34 -> #46

things were trending in the right direction, but this season was a step in the wrong direction and Indiana fancies themselves as a blue blood so Archie had to go. I would have given him one more year, but obviously I don't know the program's internal details. fwiw, I also wouldn't have fired Crean in 2017.
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Oh yeah, for sure it was his worst team, I'd agree. I just don't agree the cupboard was bare argument. It's not like there was a mass exodus of transfers. IU lost guys to the nba, so it was going to be a rebuilding year, regardless, but there were still good pieces there to work with IMO. Archie's biggest issue is that he couldn't recruit/develop at a good enough level. He got Langford, but couldn't do anything with him, he got TJD, but was surrounded by a pretty mediocre supporting cast.

I think it was time to move off him. It could have been toxic next season once they got off to a bad start with the fan base. They already hate him now. Plus it apparently came to no cost to the University since boosters are forking up the buyout money.

Edit*. Also archie not being able to keep Justin Smith from transferring to Arkansas was a huge loss this season. He avg 13 and 7 for Arkansas.
 
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ericd7633 said:
Oh yeah, for sure it was his worst team, I'd agree. I just don't agree the cupboard was bare argument. It's not like there was a mass exodus of transfers. IU lost guys to the nba, so it was going to be a rebuilding year, regardless, but there were still good pieces there to work with IMO. Archie's biggest issue is that he couldn't recruit/develop at a good enough level. He got Langford, but couldn't do anything with him, he got TJD, but was surrounded by a pretty mediocre supporting cast.

I think it was time to move off him. It could have been toxic next season once they got off to a bad start with the fan base. They already hate him now. Plus it apparently came to no cost to the University since boosters are forking up the buyout money.
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Indiana has been mediocre for the most part since they fired Knight. That was over twenty years ago. There has to be something toxic surrounding the program that nobody talks about.
 
ericd7633 said:
They had one guy transfer out of the program, a dude who avg 1.8 ppg, and IU was still able to keep all the players Crean recruited to go there. I'm not saying he walked into a situation that was great or anything, but it was MUCH, MUCH better than the situation Crean walked into. They had 3 guys declare for the draft, two of them got drafted, and the one shouldn't have gone, but that happens all the time. Honestly, Crean probably keeps his job if OG doesn't get injured in his last year there because he probably has an overall better record.
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He makes the dance 2 years before he leaves, gets up to #3 then loses in 1st found of the NIT. He had at one time Zeller Olidapo and Yogi Ferrell. I believe all from the same class. When they were all gone, he had zip left.
 
Hitman Hart said:
Indiana has been mediocre for the most part since they fired Knight. That was over twenty years ago. There has to be something toxic surrounding the program that nobody talks about.
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Yes, I would agree with the mediocre part. They had a nice two year run with Oladipo and Zeller but outside that, it's been pretty mediocre going back to Mike Davis. They've only been better than a 4 seed once this century, which is staggering. I think Crean did okay there, but was unlucky with injuries in his last year. I'm not sure of the ins within the program, but I'm going to guess the fan base can't get past the Knight days.
 
Kburjr said:
He makes the dance 2 years before he leaves, gets up to #3 then loses in 1st found of the NIT. He had at one time Zeller Olidapo and Yogi Ferrell. I believe all from the same class. When they were all gone, he had zip left.
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Oladipo and Zeller left after the 2013 season. Crean won the B1G in 2016, long after those guys were gone(Ferrell was a Sr in 2016). They made the S16 in 2016, Archie was hired in March of 2017. One year removed from the B1G title and S16. Crean still had NBA talent his last year at IU(OG and Thomas Bryant) OG got hurt most the year which killed him. Archie inherited what Crean would have if he didn't get fired. It wasn't a mass exodus like you're making it out to be.
 
ericd7633 said:
Oladipo and Zeller left after the 2013 season. Crean won the B1G in 2016, long after those guys were gone(Ferrell was a Sr in 2016). They made the S16 in 2016, Archie was hired in March of 2017. One year removed from the B1G title and S16. Crean still had NBA talent his last year at IU(OG and Thomas Bryant) OG got hurt most the year which killed him. Archie inherited what Crean would have if he didn't get fired. It wasn't a mass exodus like you're making it out to be.
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What was in the pipeline? 2 decent players and no depth. Good for OOC not for conference play and it showed. Miller's major problem was he didn't improve that situation.
 
Kburjr said:
What was in the pipeline? 2 decent players and no depth. Good for OOC not for conference play and it showed. Miller's major problem was he didn't improve that situation.
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Archie's 1st year was his best year in the B1G. Granted the B1G sucked that year.

He had Morgan(2nd team all big 10 in 2018) and Johnson(honorable mention all big 10 in 2018). So he had two top 20 players in the B1G. A 5th year RS Sr at PG. A top 40 player from the 2016 recruiting class, plus an additional 4 star from that class and 3 more 4 stars entering the program in 2017, only 2 of which he recruited. And a backup PG who played alot as a FR.

So in total:
2 top 20 B1G players
5 combined 4 stars from the 2016/2017 classes
5th year PG, who started 30+ games the season before.
A backup PG who was a career 38% shooter from 3.

It wasn't a bare roster(although not great by any means). Or some mass exodus situation that Crean dealt with. Archie's problem is he couldn't develop or recruit at a high enough level.
 
ericd7633 said:
Archie's 1st year was his best year in the B1G. Granted the B1G sucked that year.

He had Morgan(2nd team all big 10 in 2018) and Johnson(honorable mention all big 10 in 2018). So he had two top 20 players in the B1G. A 5th year RS Sr at PG. A top 40 player from the 2016 recruiting class, plus an additional 4 star from that class and 3 more 4 stars entering the program in 2017, only 2 of which he recruited. And a backup PG who played alot as a FR.

So in total:
2 top 20 B1G players
5 combined 4 stars from the 2016/2017 classes
5th year PG, who started 30+ games the season before.
A backup PG who was a career 38% shooter from 3.

It wasn't a bare roster(although not great by any means). Or some mass exodus situation that Crean dealt with. Archie's problem is he couldn't develop or recruit at a high enough level.
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By IU standards, a dumpster fire.
 
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