What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

Bender said:
so what are the conspiracy theories for dumbies vs the "official' version? before my time, never really cared. who, why, and where?
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ahhhhh… that’s the question none of them will answer. They will just throw individual “facts” at you and say “see… there… that proves there was more than one shooter” but they will never come up with an ACTUAL theory.

wanna know why? Because they can’t. Because nobody can and nobody ever has. That’s the point. They are flinging shit against the wall (in one case monkey shit - brass catchers 😂) believing it will stick.

Go ahead… ask them. Ask them for something concrete. You be the judge.

I am curious to know one thing. What do you know about this case? You said it’s before your time. I’m interested in what someone your age thinks happened. This group of old fucks have been raised on jfk conspiracy theories. It’s in their blood. They will quote movies to you not facts. You’ll never convince them otherwise.

If you really wanna know what happened @Orlando_Eagles and I will tell ya.
 
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Unsubstantiated fact is thrown out, gets repeated often (and often tweaked just so) and becomes lore explaining what happened. Conspiracy 101. When fully pushed it goes to “it was a far ranging government conspiracy. So much is hidden”. But, it’s not. It’s all out there now.

And you can’t explain through ballistics the head shot being from the front/side. Bullets don’t leave a smaller exit the entrance. They enter and make a smaller hole, then the pressure of the projectile pushes out to create the larger exit wound.

The problem is that Oswald alone killing the most powerful man in the world doesn’t balance for anyone. There has to be more to lead to such a monumental event. The mind clamors for it. So, you get all these explanations that have no basis in confirmation and reality.
 
dbldwn711 said:
ahhhhh… that’s the question none of them will answer. They will just throw individual “facts” at you and say “see… there… that proves there was more than one shooter” but they will never come up with an ACTUAL theory.

wanna know why? Because they can’t. Because nobody can and nobody ever has. That’s the point. They are flinging shit against the wall (in one case monkey shit - brass catchers 😂) believing it will stick.

Go ahead… ask them. Ask them for something concrete. You be the judge.

I am curious to know one thing. What do you know about this case? You said it’s before your time. I’m interested in what someone your age thinks happened. This group of old fucks have been raised on jfk conspiracy theories. It’s in their blood. They will quote movies to you not facts. You’ll never convince them otherwise.

If you really wanna know what happened @Orlando_Eagles and I will tell ya.
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You got this right. There has been a solid conspiracy circle around this pretty much since 12:30pm on 11/22/63. And boy has that circle changed and evolved countless times over the last 60 years. As soon as something is debunked or just questioned hard enough they change the conspiracy story.

There were so many individual fuck ups leading up to the event and through the investigations that left the door wide open to alternate theories. Any of those fuckups could denote a conspiracy in action. All I’m throwing out here is what if they weren’t denoting this at all. What if they were just fuckups?

I’m willing to continue to keep an open mind going forward. But, this is why I threw up the book for anyone interested. This is compelling.

Anyone that wants to hold onto singular facts of competing theories I’m not losing any sleep over.
 
Nosferatu said:
Why does that matter? All that matters is the shot was not from behind.
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I agree that the route is compelling. But what doesn’t get talked about a lot of that if both Main and Elm can turn right onto the access road for the Stemmons Freeway you have a traffic nightmare.

So, there was a concrete barrier in place so you couldn’t get on the Stemmons ramp from Main, and signs when coming down Main that to teach the freeway you had to……turn right on Houston and left on Elm.

As for the direction of the shot…..what information do you have that proves that head shot came from any other direction but back and up? I said this in the OP….I’ve always kept an open mind. I’m not abandoning that. But I have found compelling arguments from this book for the “not a conspiracy” line of thought.
 
ojb81 said:
I used to buy into the conspiracy behind this, hook, line and sinker. But not any longer. It was Oswald. Now, I dunno, maybe he had handlers, maybe he didn't. But, I know the shooter was Oswald.
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This is where I am. I’m still very open minded to any control on him. I’m more and more doubtful it was the mafia. I’ve always been doubtful it was the Soviets. They are crazy but not dumb.

Still can’t discount what went on when Oswald was in Mexico City trying to get clearance to go to Cuba. Story is that the Soviet and Cuban embassy played ping pong with him until he went away. Entirely possible.

It’s not like he told the Cubans he was going to get Kennedy, as the Dallas trip hasn’t been announced yet, and Oswald was living in New Orleans at that time. It’s thin that the Cubans might have come back to him. Castro made clear if Kennedy was going to try to kill him he would do the same.

I just can’t imagine the Soviets would have been ok with this. Hell, im sure they made it very clear to Castro not to fuck around like this.

What I do know if you had an unstable moron running around with ideologies in his head planning to do insane things to prove his worth and gain acceptance from those he wanted it from (though he couldn’t seem to identify those he wanted it from himself).

I used to buy into this too after JFK. It opened my mind to the possibilities. But all you have to do is read up more on the real Jim Garrison and that falls apart fast. Jesus, Oliver Stone couldn’t have picked a worse hero to model the conspiracy behind.
 
Who told SS to stand down en route?


The traditional explanation is that Kennedy himself told them prior to the motorcade to hang back a car, as he felt it didn't make him look accessible enough, but that absolutely does not explain why it happened en route, and was visibly instructed through an ear piece, and why the agent was so flabbergasted by it.
 
ojb81 said:
I used to buy into the conspiracy behind this, hook, line and sinker. But not any longer. It was Oswald. Now, I dunno, maybe he had handlers, maybe he didn't. But, I know the shooter was Oswald.
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Oswald was a shooter. But he was not the only one. If you guys want to read a book that tells who killed JFK go get a book called ...


91AkzzhHmHL.jpg




Item no longer available

The item you are looking for is no longer available.
www.abebooks.com www.abebooks.com



After reading it you will be convinced as I am that Carlos Marcello, the Louisiana Don (who ran all of the Mafia's southern business except Florida...he did run the panhandle though...)

He was a Sicilian strongman and not only did Oswald work for him but so did other people in the story as well.
 
Bayou Tiger said:
Oswald was a shooter. But he was not the only one. If you guys want to read a book that tells who killed JFK go get a book called ...


91AkzzhHmHL.jpg




Item no longer available

The item you are looking for is no longer available.
www.abebooks.com www.abebooks.com



After reading it you will be convinced as I am that Carlos Marcello, the Louisiana Don (who ran all of the Mafia's southern business except Florida...he did run the panhandle though...)

He was a Sicilian strongman and not only did Oswald work for him but so did other people in the story as well.
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I’m intrigued and looking for my next read. Maybe I’ll give them a go. I’m doubtful the mob had anything to do here. But let’s see.

Before I jump in and spend on this….does the books author state that Marcello was a Sicilian strongman?
 
beardown07 said:
Who told SS to stand down en route?


The traditional explanation is that Kennedy himself told them prior to the motorcade to hang back a car, as he felt it didn't make him look accessible enough, but that absolutely does not explain why it happened en route, and was visibly instructed through an ear piece, and why the agent was so flabbergasted by it.
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I can see it being plausible….where I struggle is it’s just one picture, with context applied to it. It’s clearly from the era, but there is nothing confirming it was shot in Dallas on 11/22/63
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I can see it being plausible….where I struggle is it’s just one picture, with context applied to it. It’s clearly from the era, but there is nothing confirming it was shot in Dallas on 11/22/63
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There is a video of it too.

The picture is real.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I’m intrigued and looking for my next read. Maybe I’ll give them a go. I’m doubtful the mob had anything to do here. But let’s see.

Before I jump in and spend on this….does the books author state that Marcello was a Sicilian strongman?
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Uh yeah! He WAS their muscle here in the south for years. If the 5 families in New York wanted to come south...they had to get his permission. He was one of the most powerful Dons in the world....and for good reason too.


BTW...the Sicilian Mafia started operating in New Orleans first, not New York.
Many are unaware of this.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I’m intrigued and looking for my next read. Maybe I’ll give them a go. I’m doubtful the mob had anything to do here. But let’s see.

Before I jump in and spend on this….does the books author state that Marcello was a Sicilian strongman?
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Really? Why's that?
 
Bayou Tiger said:
Uh yeah! He WAS their muscle here in the south for years. If the 5 families in New York wanted to come south...they had to get his permission. He was one of the most powerful Dons in the world....and for good reason too.


BTW...the Sicilian Mafia started operating in New Orleans first, not New York.
Many are unaware of this.
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I don’t need lessons on the mafia. Assure you that. The reason I asked is…..Carlos Marcello wasn’t Sicilian. He was Tunisian.

I’m not sure why the author would either assert otherwise, or just miss a damn simple fact. Puzzling.
 
They are told to stand down and are dumbfounded by it.

That itself, destroys the narrative that Kennedy ordered it BEFORE taking off.
 
Had those two SS members been where they were supposed to be, there is a distinct probability they would've blocked a clean shot from the book depository.

That is very coincidental.
 
beardown07 said:
Really? Why's that?
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I’m doubtful because I just don’t see them taking on something that will make such ripples. It’s not their MO. They didn’t kill leaders, police, FBI as it was bad for business.

It’s been shown that Hoffa was asking them for years to take care of RFK. He was absolutely the thorn in their side. And they refused to even think of taking the Attorney General out. Now they are just going to take the President out?

The FBI also had a microphone in Syndicate HQ from 1959-1965. The mob had no clue. At the time they were careful on phones as they thought that was the only way to bug them. So there are clueless to this mic for six years that span the assassination and not one word was said about it?

The only place where I held possible for mob involvement was that we know for a fact the mob and the CIA was working together on taking Castro out. They could have used the mob in their conspiracy against JFK. Only problem is I can’t find what I would consider a smoking gun towards the CIA being in on this. Not one I feel I can hang my hat on. Not even after millions of pages of government docs have been released since the 90s.

Yeah, I know….if they were in on it they will never show us anything. That’s why this will never be answered satisfactorily. But, that’s where I’ve landed on all of this.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I’m doubtful because I just don’t see them taking on something that will make such ripples. It’s not their MO. They didn’t kill leaders, police, FBI as it was bad for business.

It’s been shown that Hoffa was asking them for years to take care of RFK. He was absolutely the thorn in their side. And they refused to even think of taking the Attorney General out. Now they are just going to take the President out?

The FBI also had a microphone in Syndicate HQ from 1959-1965. The mob had no clue. At the time they were careful on phones as they thought that was the only way to bug them. So there are clueless to this mic for six years that span the assassination and not one word was said about it?

The only place where I held possible for mob involvement was that we know for a fact the mob and the CIA was working together on taking Castro out. They could have used the mob in their conspiracy against JFK. Only problem is I can’t find what I would consider a smoking gun towards the CIA being in on this. Not one I feel I can hang my hat on. Not even after millions of pages of government docs have been released since the 90s.

Yeah, I know….if they were in on it they will never show us anything. That’s why this will never be answered satisfactorily. But, that’s where I’ve landed on all of this.
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I don't believe in accidental history anymore. The CIA has their tentacles in everything.
 
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