What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

I’ll add this general point about conspiracy’s in this country. After Kennedy’s death it was mostly the left believed in conspiracy’s. The left felt that there were a lot of conspiracy’s around the Vietnam war and then Nixon. Today, it’s the right that generally believes in conspiracies with talk about TDS.

The point is that beliefs in conspiracies (not just this one) are wide spread and have been around a long long time. That’s why they can easily gain a foothold and develop traction.
The way I’ve always seen it all sides have their conspiracies, and their followers. What you mention is merely the popular happenings of those days viewed through the conspiracies around them.

There are believers of such things of any stripe and color. I’m pre Internet days they still seemed to find each other and find supporting info.

There was no way the Internet wasn’t going to greatly increase this.

I just wonder what exactly came first on the Internet….conspiracy theories or cat pictures.

Both surely benefited from the WWW.
 
Well, that and the fact that there is a laundry list of conspiracies that actually happened.

you’re right and almost all ultimately get exposed. This one, if there is one, has held its secret for 60 years and counting.
 
you’re right and almost all ultimately get exposed. This one, if there is one, has held its secret for 60 years and counting.
Many never get "fully" exposed. You get a general gist or idea, but rarely the full truth. In most cases, the truth requires dot-connection and presumption. MKUltra is a great example of that.
 
Don’t know who Dr. Hubert Winston Smith is, but he invited Dr. West to visit Ruby, hypnotize him and pump full of sodium pentothol.(truth serum)

To provide a better understanding of “his state of mind.”

 
Don’t know who Dr. Hubert Winston Smith is, but he invited Dr. West to visit Ruby, hypnotize him and pump full of sodium pentothol.(truth serum)

To provide a better understanding of “his state of mind.”

Ohhhhh….these guys were examining him after arrest.

Ok, the way I see it (and understanding what our government did back then) by Ruby killing Oswald be merely took his place in this seat for the mind fuck experiments.

Let’s face it….it at least looks like a conspiracy, whether this whole event was or not. But I have no doubt that they were going to use MKUltra on him.

My take, they were really trying to suss out what conspiracy there could have been. But, if someone else sees it as them trying to scramble his brain so he loses the connections that got him there. I can understand it being seen that way too.

In the book it talks about Ruby’s mental state in jail as proof of how deranged he already was. But, I could understand someone else seeing it as the MK quacks made him that way.
 
Ohhhhh….these guys were examining him after arrest.

Ok, the way I see it (and understanding what our government did back then) by Ruby killing Oswald be merely took his place in this seat for the mind fuck experiments.

Let’s face it….it at least looks like a conspiracy, whether this whole event was or not. But I have no doubt that they were going to use MKUltra on him.

My take, they were really trying to suss out what conspiracy there could have been. But, if someone else sees it as them trying to scramble his brain so he loses the connections that got him there. I can understand it being seen that way too.

In the book it talks about Ruby’s mental state in jail as proof of how deranged he already was. But, I could understand someone else seeing it as the MK quacks made him that way.
Couple other things with Ruby:

He died less than three years after his original conviction. Which was overturned prior to his death. He and Oswald both technically were not convicted killers.

He told the Warren Commission his life was in danger in Texas. And he was pronounced dead shortly thereafter in the same hospital as JFK and Oswald.
 
Ohhhhh….these guys were examining him after arrest.

Ok, the way I see it (and understanding what our government did back then) by Ruby killing Oswald be merely took his place in this seat for the mind fuck experiments.

Let’s face it….it at least looks like a conspiracy, whether this whole event was or not. But I have no doubt that they were going to use MKUltra on him.

My take, they were really trying to suss out what conspiracy there could have been. But, if someone else sees it as them trying to scramble his brain so he loses the connections that got him there. I can understand it being seen that way too.

In the book it talks about Ruby’s mental state in jail as proof of how deranged he already was. But, I could understand someone else seeing it as the MK quacks made him that way.
The CIA either was part of a conspiracy, or wanted to create one after the fact.

Just too much BS they were involved in surrounding the case. It’s outrageous.
 
Couple other things with Ruby:

He died less than three years after his original conviction. Which was overturned prior to his death. He and Oswald both technically were not convicted killers.

He told the Warren Commission his life was in danger in Texas. And he pronounced dead shortly thereafter in the same hospital as JFK and Oswald.
Well sourced on his death. He had cancer. Had it when this all went down too. Now, when they caught the cancer it was already in brain and bone. Maybe they could have caught it sooner, but that’s all I see.

I did see a theory that cancer cells were injected into him…..and :headscratch:
 
The CIA either was part of a conspiracy, or wanted to create one after the fact.

Just too much BS they were involved in surrounding the case. It’s outrageous.
They are kooky fuckers. Anything they do they do it secretly and reeking of conspiracy. CYA in some agencies is gonna look like CYA. For them it’s going to look like a conspiracy.

I get it though. The CIA is the one variable I can’t say we will ever have the full story on, whatever that story is.
 
Well sourced on his death. He had cancer. Had it when this all went down too. Now, when they caught the cancer it was already in brain and bone. Maybe they could have caught it sooner, but that’s all I see.

I did see a theory that cancer cells were injected into him…..and :headscratch:
Hugo Chavez man, Hugo Chavez.
 
Well, that and the fact that there is a laundry list of conspiracies that actually happened.
The occasional true conspiracies are what keeps the vast number of whacko ones alive, yeah.

There’s this attitude by government authority figures that debunking can done in a condescending or openly insulting manner, which also doesn’t help. The USS Maine wasn’t mined, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was wholly contrived, the U.S. did shoot down an Iranian passenger jet, etc. But anyone who asks questions at the time is derided and/or discredited as a kook. The WC / HSCA left so much open, it was inevitable many wouldn’t believe the findings.
 
Many never get "fully" exposed. You get a general gist or idea, but rarely the full truth. In most cases, the truth requires dot-connection and presumption. MKUltra is a great example of that.

yes but there is SOME tangible confirmation beyond presumptions. There’s some PROOF that ultimately gets exposed. That’s not the case here. There’s nothing TANGIBLE. That’s what I’m looking for.

Look, there’s a reason why MOST people think there was a JFK murder conspiracy. I think that two of the main reasons for that are 1) Kennedy’s head movement after the head shot and 2) the magic bullet being found on that stretcher. I guess we could throw in Ruby shooting Oswald and the bizarre circumstances surrounding that as an honorable mention. The first 2, at first blush, just seem so implausible when you line them up with the theory of a lone gunman that you say “cmon… that cant be true. That’s gotta be bullshit” and if you think that then you start LOOKING for stuff to support your belief that it’s bullshit. You start saying/thinking stuff like why did that motorcade make that unusual turn, why was the motorcade route changed, why weren’t the SS standing on the limo, how did Oswald just happen to get a job at the TSBD, why wasn’t there any blood on Oswald after he got shot, etc. However, after all the digging into this case by scores of authors of conspiracy books no tangible evidence has emerged. In fact, evidence/experiments are done which SUPPORT that the first two things could have really happened. Millions of pages of documents have been declassified which show nothing. Yet, people who still believe it was a conspiracy will always say “the truth is hidden in what’s not released”. They will cling to what they don’t have access to as the proof that there is a coverup (ie the brain).

Let’s take this psychiatrist that you’ve mentioned. I don’t know much at all about him. In fact, I hadn’t even heard of him till you mentioned him. I looked a little bit online about him but I couldn’t find much beyond he did some highly questionable stuff with people who suffered from psychiatric disorders. In fact, much of his experimenting was on psych patients because he wasn’t worried if they complained. I mean, who’s gonna believe them, right? I see from your link that he also worked with Patty Hearst and basically was her advocate for saying she wasn’t responsible for her actions bc of the mind control she was under. He even went so far as to petition for her pardon.

With respect to Ruby, he was brought into the case to “evaluate” him bc Ruby’s lawyers had lost the first case but we getting ready for a retrial. They claimed that Ruby was acting “strange” after his conviction. (Ruby argued he couldn’t remember what happened during the Oswald shooting. That he blacked out. His lawyers argued he had an epileptic seizure which explained the memory loss and bizarre behavior). Henry Wade (the DA at the time) wrote a letter saying that he and his staff believed that Ruby was faking this strange behavior. Nobody had ever diagnosed Ruby crazy before but then this doctor goes and meets with him and after examining Ruby over the course of 48 hours he declares him crazy by saying that he’s hearing voices, hiding under the table, etc but that the episodes last only a few minutes and then he picks up on the conversation he was having as if it didn’t happen. Ruby exhibited similar behavior when he met with Warren, Ford and Specter of the WC. He even said something bizarre to Specter about Jews bc they were both Jewish. It’s entirely plausible that this dr was helping Ruby set up an insanity defense.

The point is for every sinister inference that can be drawn there’s countless non-sinister ones. That’s NOT defending a certain position. That’s simply holding conspiracy theorists accountable to what is FACT and what is CONJECTURE.

Oswald never went to visit Marianna at Paines house during the week. He always went after work on Friday, stayed the weekend and went back to Dallas on Sunday night. The day before the assassination (a Thursday) he unexpectedly and unannounced shows up at the house. The next day he is given a ride to work by a neighbor. This neighbor sees him carrying a package. He tells the neighbor it’s curtain rods. Ruth Paine says he never asked me for curtain rods and I never gave him any curtain rods. The packing material is found at the crime scene (it has his fingerprints and gun oil on it), no curtain rods are found at the crime scene, his gun is found at the scene, his finger and palm prints are found on the boxes the sniper used to take the shots, the two witness’s below hear the bolt action of a gun similar to his clicking three times, they hear three shots ring out, they hear three shells hit the floor above him, Oswalds gun is found at the scene, three shells from that gun are also found, not one co-worker can account for his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, after the shooting he just leaves his job and isn’t present when they do roll call, a few hours later he shoots a cop and when he’s captured a short distance away he’s in possession of THE gun that shot the cop.

These are ALL uncontroverted facts. IF anyone ascribes to any conspiracy theory, in order to have credibility, they MUST imo account for these facts in their theory. You can’t just dismiss them and say “fuck the government! They lie!” All those people are lying? Ruth Paine, the guy who gave him a ride, the two witness’s on the floor below, the cop who found the gun, the cop who found the shells, the cop who found the wrapping paper, the cop who dusted for the fingerprints, the cop that tied the shells found to his gun, the ballistics expert that tied the two bullets found to his gun, ALL the co-workers who didn’t give him an alibi, the supervisor who took role call, the witness’s who saw him shoot Tippet and the cop who ballistically tied his gun to tippets murder? They ALL lied or were mistaken?

All I’m saying is it’s GREAT that we uncover new info but when we do we can’t just ignore all the info that we’ve already learned.
 
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The occasional true conspiracies are what keeps the vast number of whacko ones alive, yeah.

There’s this attitude by government authority figures that debunking can done in a condescending or openly insulting manner, which also doesn’t help. The USS Maine wasn’t mined, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was wholly contrived, the U.S. did shoot down an Iranian passenger jet, etc. But anyone who asks questions at the time is derided and/or discredited as a kook. The WC / HSCA left so much open, it was inevitable many wouldn’t believe the findings.

agreed. I’ve posted a few times about the Boston marathon bomber and how it was DOCUMENTED that he worked for the CIA in his home country and then got fucked over on his request for citizenship when he got back to the US. That was his motive for the Boston marathon bombing.

Here, i put it in this thread.

 
yes but there is SOME tangible confirmation beyond presumptions. There’s some PROOF that ultimately gets exposed. That’s not the case here. There’s nothing TANGIBLE. That’s what I’m looking for.

Look, there’s a reason why MOST people think there was a JFK murder conspiracy. I think those two of the main reasons are 1) Kennedy’s head movement after the head shot and 2) the magic bullet being found on that stretcher. I guess we could throw in Ruby shooting Oswald and the bizarre circumstances surrounding that as an honorable mention. The first 2, at first blush, just seem so implausible when you line them up with the theory of a lone gunman that you say “cmon… that cant be true. That’s gotta be bullshit” and if you think that then you start LOOKING for stuff to support your belief that it’s bullshit. You start saying thinking stuff like why did they motorcade make that unusual turn, why was the motorcade route changed, why weren’t the SS standing on the limo, how did Oswald just happen to get a job at the TSBD, why wasn’t there any blood on Oswald after he got shot, etc. However, after all the digging into this case by scores of authors of conspiracy books no tangible evidence has emerged. In fact, evidence/experiments are done which SUPPORT that the first two things could have really happened. Millions of pages of documents have been declassified which show nothing. Yet, people who still believe it was a conspiracy will always say “the truth is hidden in what’s not released”. They will cling to what they don’t have access to as the proof that there is a coverup (ie the brain).

Let’s take this psychiatrist that you’ve mentioned. I don’t know much at al about him. In fact, I hadn’t even heard of him till you mentioned him. I looked a little bit online about him but I couldn’t find much beyond he did some highly questionable stuff with people who suffered from psychiatric disorders. In fact, much of his experimenting was on psych patients because he wasn’t worried if they complained. I mean, who’s gonna believe them, right? I see from your link that he also worked with Patty Hearst and basically was her advocate for saying she wasn’t responsible for her actions bc of the mind control she was under. He even went so far as to petition for her pardon.

With respect to Ruby, he was brought into the case to “evaluate” him bc Ruby’s lawyers had lost the first case but we getting ready for a retrial. They claimed that Ruby was acting “strange” after his conviction. (Ruby argued he couldn’t remember what happened during the Oswald shooting. That he blacked out. His lawyers argued he had an epileptic seizure which explained the memory loss and bizarre behavior). Henry Wade (the DA at the time) wrote a letter saying that he and his staff believed that Ruby was faking this strange behavior. Nobody had ever diagnosed Ruby crazy before but then this doctor goes and meets with him and after examining Ruby over the course of 48 hours he declares him crazy by saying that he’s hearing voices, hiding under the table, etc but that the episodes last only a few minutes and then he picks up on the conversation he was having as if it didn’t happen. Ruby exhibited similar behavior when he met with Warren, Ford and Specter of the WC. He even said something bizarre to Specter about Jews bc they were both Jewish. It’s entirely plausible that this dr was helping Ruby set up an insanity defense.

The point is for ever sinister inference that can be drawn there’s countless non-sinister ones. That’s NOT defending a certain position. That’s simply holding conspiracy theorists accountable to what IS fact.

Oswald never went to visit Marianna at Paines house during the week. He always went after work on Friday, stayed the weekend and went back to Dallas on Sunday night. The day before the assassination (a Thursday) he unexpectedly and unannounced shows up at the house. The next day he is given a ride to work by a neighbor. This neighbor sees him carrying a package. He tells the neighbor it’s curtain rods. Ruth Paine says he never asked me for curtain rods and I never gave him any curtain rods. The packing material is found at the crime scene (it has his fingerprints and gun oil on it) his gun is found at the scene, his finger and palm prints are found on the boxes the sniper used to take the shots, the two witness’s below hear the bolt action of a gun similar to his clicking three times, they hear three shots ring out, they hear three shells hit the floor above him, Oswalds gun is found at the scene, there shells from that gun are also found, not one co-worker can account for his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, after the shooting he just leaves his job and isn’t present when they do roll call, a few hours later he shoots a cop and when he’s captured a short distance away he’s in possession of THE gun that shot the cop.

These are ALL uncontroverted facts. IF anyone ascribes to any conspiracy theory, in order to have credibility, they MUST imo account for these facts in their theory. You can’t just dismiss them and say “fuck the government! They lie!” All those people are lying? Ruth Paine, the guy who gave him a ride, the two witness’s on the floor below, the cop who found the gun, the cop who found the shells, the cop who found the wrapping paper, the cop who dusted for the fingerprints, the cop that tied the shells found to his gun, the ballistics expert that tied the two bullets found to his gun, ALL the co-workers who didn’t give him an alibi, the supervisor who took role call, the witness’s who saw him shoot Tippet and the cop who ballistically tied his gun to tippets murder? They ALL lied or were mistaken?

All I’m saying is it’s GREAT that we uncover knew info but when we do we can’t just ignore all the info that we’ve already learned.
Bro, while I appreciate the thoroughness, this is unnecessary. I'm a dot guy. I like the coincidences. It's entertaining. There are wheels in motion everywhere, and there is always nefarious shit happening. As mentioned before, I don't know what happened, or even really care, but I do know that there were major capitalizations happening before, during and after. Never let a good tragedy go to waste en sech.

Tho I should say, it's not "why were the SS not on the limo", it's why were they visibly called off the limo en route. Much better question.
 
Bro, while I appreciate the thoroughness, this is unnecessary. I'm a dot guy. I like the coincidences. It's entertaining. There are wheels in motion everywhere, and there is always nefarious shit happening. As mentioned before, I don't know what happened, or even really care, but I do know that there were major capitalizations happening before, during and after. Never let a good tragedy go to waste en sech.

Tho I should say, it's not "why were the SS not on the limo", it's why were they visibly called off the limo en route. Much better question.

appreciate the comments and I appreciate the bringing up of this doc. Like I said, I hadn’t heard anything about him before. I’m gonna check out the link @broncosmitty just posted on him a little later.

I get it. I too like the inferences. I think we all do. Fiction is almost always more entertaining than the truth. I get it. I really really do. I was a dots guy. Then I felt like I was the one being capitalized on. I couldn’t WAIT for stones movie! I was (as you can see) very into this. That movie was such a let down. That movie was nothing like I was hoping for. I didn’t hate it initially. Although I was let down I stayed with it. I watched it many many times. I tried to take some stuff from it and chalk the rest up to “meh… it’s Hollywood. My expectations were unrealistic.” Later, i rec’d this book and I openly scoffed at it to the point was sister was like “well fuck you then”. Haha. This thing sat on my shelf in my room for years till I finally gave in and read it. As I was reading it I realized I had been looking at not just this thing but lots of things in life the wrong way. I started to question what I was being told. I started saying, ok… don’t tell me… show me.

I mentioned earlier that previously it was the left that was all into conspiracy theories. Now it’s more the right. Often times my questioning of modern day conspiracy theories (ie TDS) is confused with my political stance more than how I approach things. Theres a group of people who torture, sexually abuse and eat children in a basement of a pizza joint. Ok… don’t tell me… show me. Now obviously that’s an extreme example but that’s my point. With the Boston marathon bomber info I posted earlier, when I first heard that story I said “show me”. That author did. I’m from Boston. I’m not particularly a fan of her BUT she put together solid work on that case and I believe her. I believe the government fucked over that guy which pissed him off enough to do that terrible thing AND then lied/tried to cover up/minimize their involvement. I believe that 100%.

As I’ve said MANY times, when it comes to this case… Im ready to believe something was there… just show me.
 
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The occasional true conspiracies are what keeps the vast number of whacko ones alive, yeah.

There’s this attitude by government authority figures that debunking can done in a condescending or openly insulting manner, which also doesn’t help. The USS Maine wasn’t mined, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was wholly contrived, the U.S. did shoot down an Iranian passenger jet, etc. But anyone who asks questions at the time is derided and/or discredited as a kook. The WC / HSCA left so much open, it was inevitable many wouldn’t believe the findings.
<clears throat>…..weapons of mass destruction ….
 
<clears throat>…..weapons of mass destruction ….

well done.

IMO that was Cheney who fucked Bush over. In fact, Bush and Cheney didn’t speak to each other towards the end of his presidency and they still don’t speak to this day.

if you want some really good insight into dick Cheney watch a documentary called “The world according to Dick Cheney”.

OMG that dude is :loco2:
 
well done.

IMO that was Cheney who fucked Bush over. In fact, Bush and Cheney didn’t speak to each other towards the end of his presidency and they still don’t speak to this day.

if you want some really good insight into dick Cheney watch a documentary called “The world according to Dick Cheney”.

OMG that dude is :loco2:
Fully agree that’s how it went down. I always like Bush II generally speaking. He is still the former living President I would love to have a beer with.

But he (and many around him) got spun and pushed around by that nutty old fuck face.

It came to mind not so much as example of conspiracy but more to @Mofo calling out USS Maine, Tonkin, etc. Those have all been readjusted for the realities they were.
 
Don’t know who Dr. Hubert Winston Smith is, but he invited Dr. West to visit Ruby, hypnotize him and pump full of sodium pentothol.(truth serum)

To provide a better understanding of “his state of mind.”


Dr Hubert Winston Smith was Jack Ruby’s lawyer after he fired Melvin Belli (Ruby’s first trial lawyer). Dr Smith was Ruby’s lawyer for the retrial you talked about earlier. Apparently, Ruby’s lawyer had known of and possibly previously worked with this psych doctor. His lawyer MAY have brought him into the case to set up an insanity defense. That’s generally why lawyers bring psych doctors into a case. Ruby didn’t have much of a defense. He shot and killed Ruby in front of about 20 reporters, half a dozen cops and on live television. Insanity was probably his best options.

I found the link you posted earlier after @beardown07 first posted about this psych doctor. It was Ruby’s lawyer who brought this guy into Ruby’s case.

Joe Rogan had an interview with a guy who wrote an entire book about this psyche doctor. Here’s a portion of that interview.

 
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appreciate the comments and I appreciate the bringing up of this doc. Like I said, I hadn’t heard anything about him before. I’m gonna check out the link @broncosmitty just posted on him a little later.

I get it. I too like the inferences. I think we all do. Fiction is almost always more entertaining than the truth. I get it. I really really do. I was a dots guy. Then I felt like I was the one being capitalized on. I couldn’t WAIT for stones movie! I was (as you can see) very into this. That movie was such a let down. That movie was nothing like I was hoping for. I didn’t hate it initially. Although I was let down I stayed with it. I watched it many many times. I tried to take some stuff from it and chalk the rest up to “meh… it’s Hollywood. My expectations were unrealistic.” Later, i rec’d this book and I openly scoffed at it to the point was sister was like “well fuck you then”. Haha. This thing sat on my shelf in my room for years till I finally gave in and read it. As I was reading it I realized I had been looking at not just this thing but lots of things in life the wrong way. I started to question what I was being told. I started saying, ok… don’t tell me… show me.

I mentioned earlier that previously it was the left that was all into conspiracy theories. Now it’s more the right. Often times my questioning of modern day conspiracy theories (ie TDS) is confused with my political stance more than how I approach things. Theres a group of people who torture, sexually abuse and eat children in a basement of a pizza joint. Ok… don’t tell me… show me. Now obviously that’s an extreme example but that’s my point. With the Boston marathon bomber info I posted earlier, when I first heard that story I said “show me”. That author did. I’m from Boston. I’m not particularly a fan of her BUT she put together solid work on that case and I believe her. I believe the government fucked over that guy which pissed him off enough to do that terrible thing AND then lied/tried to cover up their involvement. I believe that 100%.

As I’ve said MANY times, when it comes to this case… Im ready to believe something was there… just show me.
I’ve had this thought from the start of reading this book and starting this thread….there is a component of different strokes for different folks. Some enjoy a good story that is plausible and lays against the mistrust of certain groups or organizations to boot

I was this guy for a long time. Strangely I wasn’t all over the map with conspiracies, if I didn’t have particular interest in the topic I could care less what the real story or conspiracy was. JFK always had me though. My parents were young teens that day. I grew up with the “where you were when Kennedy was shot” lore. As I learned and took a greater interest in history I could quickly see the complete night and day difference between America pre and post 11/22/63. While it’s never one event, no matter how seminal, that changes the course of a whole country it sure looked like this was the exact pivot point. It had such weight.

And, again, the lore of growing up in the 50s, the Camelot years of the early 60s was passed along with such a romance. I can also remember my earliest memories being of things like Grease and Sha Na Na. My parents were caught up in the nostalgia trip. They never had such a nostalgia trip on 1967 or 1973. In their generations mind it changed that day.

Perception among an entire generation that one event changed so much is compelling. It begs for answers. A possibly complicit government being very secretive is a huge sign. It threw me into the whole things full bore. Because….Oswald being the sole shooter to not only the most powerful man in the world, but also the creator of THE thing that made everything go to shit just doesn’t add up. The mind begs for more to balance it against.

The truth is that many of the things that went bad in the years to come didn’t do it solely because Kennedy was killed. I’ve done the thought experiment….what is different between Kennedy going to 1968 and what Johnson did? The Great Society still happens. Civil rights progress still happens. I just cannot see how Vietnam goes much different then it did. Does Kennedy go from Camelot to the deplored “baby killer” Johnson was seen as? It’s highly probable.

It took me some time to come to this. And maybe maturity. I was fine for a long time to say “some shady ass shit happened here. I can’t prove it, but I know it” and move on with my life. But, if nothing about the progress and arc of the United States was really going to change as drastically if Kennedy wasn’t killed then what balance do I need to have against what the evidence shows.

I’m more interested to what I can say did happen than speculate. It puts any conspiracy of this event on a historical level with USS Maine or Tonkin….things perhaps done at the time to assure an outcome that was likely going to be an outcome anyway.

I don’t begrudge anyone being a dot connector who likes a good story….I was that guy for most of my life.
 
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