Leap of faith - religion or science?

[SJ76]

That really pisses me off people/family can be like that. Like it’s a dam agenda.

@Peter Gozintite i pray that God sends you someone better than me to talk to you. Because maybe that’s why I’m having this conversation with you.. that you get to see your daughter again.

if I wrong I’m wrong. If you meet that someone let me know… don’t shut them out and lay it down/give it to God. Just see what happens. If it doesn’t happen, we can laugh at me. I love to
Laugh

 

[SJ76]

I just wanted to say I think you guys are doing a great job in debating this.
Should only be a matter of time before you're both on the same page.......

It’s all love and smartassery

 

[Peter Gozintite]

That really pisses me off people/family can be like that. Like it’s a dam agenda.

@Peter Gozintite i pray that God sends you someone better than me to talk to you. Because maybe that’s why I’m having this conversation with you.. that you get to see your daughter again.

if I wrong I’m wrong. If you meet that someone let me know… don’t shut them out and lay it down/give it to God. Just see what happens. If it doesn’t happen, we can laugh at me. I love to
Laugh

Im glad that its fulfilling for you. I don't feel like I am missing anything. I dont feel like there is a void that needs to be filled. I am generally pretty happy, for the first time in a long time.

I have parts of my daughter that even death cant take away. She made me be a better person in life, and even now that she is gone. She is more of a driving force in my life than anything. Trying to honor her life, by doing better, and making differences that she isnt here to make. Thats what is left of her here. I cherish it.

 

[SJ76]

Im glad that its fulfilling for you. I don't feel like I am missing anything. I dont feel like there is a void that needs to be filled. I am generally pretty happy, for the first time in a long time.

I have parts of my daughter that even death cant take away. She made me be a better person in life, and even now that she is gone. She is more of a driving force in my life than anything. Trying to honor her life, by doing better, and making differences that she isnt here to make. Thats what is left of her here. I cherish it.

hell yeah bro do what she would want you to do. But your family needs to back off and love unconditionally. That’s not how you lead by example as a Christian. Its human to be angry at everything after something like that including God. Can’t be like that forever or it will own you and you’ve found the positives from what she brought in your life obviously.

For me, no idea where I would be if it wasn’t for Him. I come from nothing. Parents jacked, siblings jacked, wife even more jacked when she was young. All I’ve had is the Lord almighty and he’s come thru and sent me random, crazy and even famous people every FUCKING time. Almost as efficient as watching MJ and Bulls in the 1990s. Lol

 

[Schmoopy1000]

ahh so it’s not celebrated anymore therefore it’s not Christmas?
Lol you can’t even answer the question

Christmas = birth of Christ. Always has been always will be whether you celebrate it or naaaah

I did answer the question.
Those that believe it was the birth of christ probably celebrates Christmas in church that day.
Everyone else that are "Christmas" Trees & presents are following pagan rituals.
Christians started bringing in such rituals to pull non christians into the fold. Literally merging things that werent true to convert them.
So they took on Saturnalia (Winter Solitice) Which they celebrated, & decided this is the day Christ was born. Since they werent gonna give up this pagan holiday, Christians converted it into a Christian holiday making conversion easier for Pagans. Which was a lie. Religions lying for power is a common thing.
Now you would know reading your books, better than I. Jesus wasnt born in the winter. Best they can tell it was summer or fall.
So even if you believe Jesus was a real person. You would know he wasnt born on Christmas. It was a non christian holiday that was rebranded by Christians to convert non christians. Christmas that everyone knows. Was around long before the birth of christ.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

hell yeah bro do what she would want you to do. But your family needs to back off and love unconditionally. That’s not how you lead by example as a Christian. Its human to be angry at everything after something like that including God. Can’t be like that forever or it will own you and you’ve found the positives from what she brought in your life obviously.

For me, no idea where I would be if it wasn’t for Him. I come from nothing. Parents jacked, siblings jacked, wife even more jacked when she was young. All I’ve had is the Lord almighty and he’s come thru and sent me random, crazy and even famous people every FUCKING time. Almost as efficient as watching MJ and Bulls in the 1990s. Lol

I have cut out several family members in the last few years. I dont have time for people that drag me down. I have had talks with the remaining family that I love, and they understand. I dont go to her house for thanksgiving anymore, and just dont go to family gatherings she, or her side are at. Its just better for my life, and I dont owe them shit.

I was always the bastard kid, that was expected to fail. Even as a kid, they all hated my dad, that was by all accounts a scumbag, but they inflicted their disdain for him on me. Funny though, she always told me I couldnt raise good kids without the church,'Its not possible". Neither of her kids graduated high school, and both went down a dark path before coming back around. Both of them come to me for advice, and support. Both of them attribute them getting clean and having some self love to me always reinforcing that they have to care about themselves, or they cant care about anything else. They would never say it front of their parents, but everyone knows who was there for them.

If that is the only thing left of me, when I die, I'm okay with that.

 

[SJ76]

I have cut out several family members in the last few years. I dont have time for people that drag me down. I have had talks with the remaining family that I love, and they understand. I dont go to her house for thanksgiving anymore, and just dont go to family gatherings she, or her side are at. Its just better for my life, and I dont owe them shit.

I was always the bastard kid, that was expected to fail. Even as a kid, they all hated my dad, that was by all accounts a scumbag, but they inflicted their disdain for him on me. Funny though, she always told me I couldnt raise good kids without the church,'Its not possible". Neither of her kids graduated high school, and both went down a dark path before coming back around. Both of them come to me for advice, and support. Both of them attribute them getting clean and having some self love to me always reinforcing that they have to care about themselves, or they cant care about anything else. They would never say it front of their parents, but everyone knows who was there for them.

If that is the only thing left of me, when I die, I'm okay with that.

We are all human and fall short at times. Disappoint others at times. But consistent patterns that are consistently bad I am with you. Family or not I’m over it as well. They can live their life and I can live mine. Wish them all the luck too with genuinely no hate. Tired of family making up their own rules as they go but it Doesn’t apply to them / they can manipulate.

kids are pure love man and deserve nothing less. I like mine in our church becasue this world is pretty twisted and it gives them a foundation. Our church is pretty bad ass. But love from family gives them support and foundation as well.

A good church is essentially a big family. Lots of love but real people with real problems and most of it is out in the open. Legit people that want to help and teach. And have fun too not some lame old school church.

 

[SJ76]

I did answer the question.
Those that believe it was the birth of christ probably celebrates Christmas in church that day.
Everyone else that are "Christmas" Trees & presents are following pagan rituals.
Christians started bringing in such rituals to pull non christians into the fold. Literally merging things that werent true to convert them.
So they took on Saturnalia (Winter Solitice) Which they celebrated, & decided this is the day Christ was born. Since they werent gonna give up this pagan holiday, Christians converted it into a Christian holiday making conversion easier for Pagans. Which was a lie. Religions lying for power is a common thing.
Now you would know reading your books, better than I. Jesus wasnt born in the winter. Best they can tell it was summer or fall.
So even if you believe Jesus was a real person. You would know he wasnt born on Christmas. It was a non christian holiday that was rebranded by Christians to convert non christians. Christmas that everyone knows. Was around long before the birth of christ.

The English term "Christmas" comes from the combination of the words "mass" and "Christ," according to the Encyclopedia Britannica.

“mass on Christ's day”


So whatever day it’s been on during history, the meaning is the same

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Do you know why Christmas is called Christmas?

The English term "Christmas" comes from the combination of the words "mass" and "Christ," according to the Encyclopedia Britannica.

“mass on Christ's day”


So whatever day it’s been on during history, the meaning is the same

now lets rewind our conversation to the original reason you asked me.
I think I have explained in plenty of detail why that means nothing to me as to whether I believe Christ walked on this earth or not.
Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of christ. It was invented (called Christmas) to convert non christians.

 

[Voltaire]

(1) People have been attributing things they cant understand to "god(s)" since forever, simply because they don't understand them.

(2) The only thing I KNOW, is I don't know. I don't rule out the possibility of something bigger, that I cant understand.

(3) I also don't think that simply because I don't understand something, it has to have been created by a higher being. I feel like thats a huge cop out.

(4) It doesnt make any sense to me that the entire universe, as we know it, was created just so we could live on earth, and have our own personal god.

(5) I think people are very self important, and pretty insignificant in the big scheme of the universe. They cant bring themselves to think that when they die its just over. They need eternal life. I would bet there is life on other planets. If there is bacteria and fungus on other planets, is that from the creator, or did it just happen?

(6) I honestly think bacteria and fungus are the first alien life forms, and have been here for a VERY long time, and through multiple mass extinctions. Does the creator love them more than us or dinosaurs? I mean, bacteria has been found that they estimate to be over 3 billion years old. We cant even wrap our minds around that kind of time. Lots of things, mutations, and adaptations can happen in that time.

(7) Short answer, I'm more atheist than anything, I guess. I dont rule out anything though, and would never tell someone they are wrong, until they pull that shit on me. As I have said before, you can believe whatever you want, it doesn't mean I have to. Believing is not KNOWING.

(1) Agree ... Do atheist believe in nothing. I am ready to understand what nothing is. So far, nothing has never made sense to me.

(2) I agree with I don't know, but the something bigger (God) appears to be the most logical thing to me.

(3) I don't see the belief of God as a cop out. I see the creation of the Universe as an act of God (with all God's Laws - Physics). Everything else is a reaction to the action that precede it starting with the Big Bang (God's work). It's easy for me ... maybe a cop out.

(4) I agree 100% ... the Universe is greater than we are presently capable to understand.

(5) I do believe in afterlife and I have as much evidence that it exists than anyone else who has a belief that it doesn't exist. See it all comes does to belief and faith. I do believe in life on other planets, both complex and simple (again no evidence).

(6) If everything started at the Big Band then everything is alien to everywhere. If Newton's 3rd Law is correct then everything is a direct reaction to the Big Bang.

(7) Believing is not KNOWING ... We think we know, but it comes down to belief.

Well thought out responses. I felt compelled to attempt to answer it all. Thank you.

 

[Kburjr]

(1) Agree ... Do atheist believe in nothing. I am ready to understand what nothing is. So far, nothing has never made sense to me.

(2) I agree with I don't know, but the something bigger (God) appears to be the most logical thing to me.

(3) I don't see the belief of God as a cop out. I see the creation of the Universe as an act of God (with all God's Laws - Physics). Everything else is a reaction to the action that precede it starting with the Big Bang (God's work). It's easy for me ... maybe a cop out.

(4) I agree 100% ... the Universe is greater than we are presently capable to understand.

(5) I do believe in afterlife and I have as much evidence that it exists than anyone else who has a belief that it doesn't exist. See it all comes does to belief and faith. I do believe in life on other planets, both complex and simple (again no evidence).

(6) If everything started at the Big Band then everything is alien to everywhere. If Newton's 3rd Law is correct then everything is a direct reaction to the Big Bang.

(7) Believing is not KNOWING ... We think we know, but it comes down to belief.

Well thought out responses. I felt compelled to attempt to answer it all. Thank you.

Just a thought on Big Bang.

What evidence do we have that this is the only universe? Was Big Bang a unique event?

 

[Voltaire]

Just a thought on Big Bang.

(1) What evidence do we have that this is the only universe? (2) Was Big Bang a unique event?

Two of the easiest questions ...

(1) None

(2) I don't know.

 

[Kburjr]

Two of the easiest questions ...

(1) None

(2) I don't know.

Correct. So why the ego-centrism writ large? There may be as many universes as atoms in the universe. We are less thn a mote of dust floating in a sunbeam. On top of that, we are alone in our own minds.

We are. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Voltaire]

Correct. So why the ego-centrism writ large? There may be as many universes as atoms in the universe. We are less thn a mote of dust floating in a sunbeam. On top of that, we are alone in our own minds.

We are. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do know that there are more questions than answers. If you find one answer, it appears that two questions arise (just a hunch).

 

[DayButtAssMans’s]

(1) Agree ... Do atheist believe in nothing. I am ready to understand what nothing is. So far, nothing has never made sense to me.

Atheists don’t believe in god because there’s no proof of a god existing. That is all… Most would be happy to ‘believe’ in god with any evidence for a god. The way you put it either shows you don’t understand that, or you don’t want to understand.

(2) I agree with I don't know, but the something bigger (God) appears to be the most logical thing to me.

There is nothing logical about making a case for one thing that doesn’t have evidence because you don’t have evidence for another thing. The either/or argument doesn’t work, and it’s even dangerous because it leads to people denying and misrepresenting things that have strong evidence because they think doing that somehow supports their other unrelated thing that has zero evidence.

(3) I don't see the belief of God as a cop out. I see the creation of the Universe as an act of God (with all God's Laws - Physics). Everything else is a reaction to the action that precede it starting with the Big Bang (God's work). It's easy for me ... maybe a cop out.

Whatever you want to call it there’s no evidence to support it, you’re just making up a story (or going with someone else’s made up story) to account for something that is unknown. There doesn’t have to be an answer to every question.

(4) I agree 100% ... the Universe is greater than we are presently capable to understand.

Ah ha! So god did it!

(5) I do believe in afterlife and I have as much evidence that it exists than anyone else who has a belief that it doesn't exist. See it all comes does to belief and faith. I do believe in life on other planets, both complex and simple (again no evidence).

Again, not believing in something doesn’t require evidence. If it makes you happy to believe something with nothing to support it, have at it. But don’t pretend there being no evidence to disprove a made up claim validates your belief.

(6) If everything started at the Big Band then everything is alien to everywhere. If Newton's 3rd Law is correct then everything is a direct reaction to the Big Bang.

wat

(7) Believing is not KNOWING ...

That’s what I’ve been saying…

We think we know, but it comes down to belief

But not really. We can know plenty from repeatable observations. We can rely on evidence to actually know things. If you want to go beyond that and make claims that aren’t supported by anything, there’s no problem with that, until you start pretending those claims are just as valid and claims that are backed by evidence, or that they’re valid because no one can disprove your random made up beliefs that can’t be supported in the first place.

 

[occupant]