What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy

Orlando_Eagles said:
This has been my thoughts as well. So many things that lead to a conspiracy theory forming can easily just be poor management, planning, etc.

I think Kennedy and his handlers pushed no bubble top and not agents on the back bumper due to the optics. He was in Texas mending fences leading up to the re-election run.

A similar scenario these days could have the Presidents handlers pushing for these things and the SS pointing out that they are not budging, then reminded them that JFK is the reason they are not budging.

Short of Hinkley they haven’t had a gap since. Part of that is luck. But a big part of that is they greatly ramped security and won’t budge on it for any of the reasons they allowed themselves to be budged on on this day.
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but you'd think if they allowed open air car with no agents on or even really that close to the car that they'd have a better sight and control of surrounding buildings.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
You’re right evidence is cold as hell at this point. You have to go with what evidence is there already to base off of.

Which….based upon the second half of your post I’m not sure you have faith in.

I’m not sure what you mean by “people were silenced”.
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oswald was silenced...
 
dbldwn711 said:
@Orlando_Eagles touched upon this earlier. A proper investigation would have taken much longer than they took. I suspect that they were balancing the need for answers to calm the public vs dotting every I and crossing every T. They didn’t have any physical evidence to support a second shooter so they went with lone gunman. In the process they didn’t run to ground every little scenario. It’s really only in THAT missing info where these conspiracys live. IMO the book in the OP runs down those missing unanswered questions which is why I like it.
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I maintain that we all believe government is inefficient and goes too often by their own motivations. We can’t believe that and be shocked that this is just what the WC did.

In that though is literally where the conspiracy movement started. People that were engrossed in the event and what happened. Again, the mind begs for more than one deranged creep with a rifle. They dissected and devoured all 26 volumes of the WC report. Many if the main theories and themes evolve from what was in (and more importantly not in) this report.

I don’t maintain they forced single shooter at us. I maintain they took a cursory glance at evidence and went with it. The damn thing only took 9-10 months. It should have taken many times longer than that to do right.
 
RoyMunson said:
but you'd think if they allowed open air car with no agents on or even really that close to the car that they'd have a better sight and control of surrounding buildings.
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I would think this for sure. Yes. But I’m not sure how deep they took that back then. More to the point….they had already gone miles through the center of a major city. That was a lot of building covered. Maybe those were further up on the city where the crowds were.

But, if you have more to cover than man power what do you do? These days you shut the event down. They clearly didn’t have that power and sway then.

If they were covering so much on that route they were doing it further up in town. This was the point where the crowds ended as large thing. This was the last piece before they hit the freeway and got to the event.

I think they should have had things like TSBD covered. I think they shouldn’t have allowed no bubble top of agents close. But they did.

Do you feel this puts SS in a conspiracy?
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
How?
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This has always been a conversation I/We can't win, if we could we wouldn't be having the conversation. So, I don't know why anyone expects us to have the answers. When you look at all the things as a whole it just doesn't add up for me.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I would think this for sure. Yes. But I’m not sure how deep they took that back then. More to the point….they had already gone miles through the center of a major city. That was a lot of building covered. Maybe those were further up on the city where the crowds were.

But, if you have more to cover than man power what do you do? These days you shut the event down. They clearly didn’t have that power and sway then.

If they were covering so much on that route they were doing it further up in town. This was the point where the crowds ended as large thing. This was the last piece before they hit the freeway and got to the event.

I think they should have had things like TSBD covered. I think they shouldn’t have allowed no bubble top of agents close. But they did.

Do you feel this puts SS in a conspiracy?
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as I said... either complicity or incompetent.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
More to the point….they had already gone miles through the center of a major city.
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Through the city there wasn't a place where everyone knew they had to slow down to under 10 MPH.
 
Orlando_Eagles said:
I maintain that we all believe government is inefficient and goes too often by their own motivations. We can’t believe that and be shocked that this is just what the WC did.

In that though is literally where the conspiracy movement started. People that were engrossed in the event and what happened. Again, the mind begs for more than one deranged creep with a rifle. They dissected and devoured all 26 volumes of the WC report. Many if the main theories and themes evolve from what was in (and more importantly not in) this report.

I don’t maintain they forced single shooter at us. I maintain they took a cursory glance at evidence and went with it. The damn thing only took 9-10 months. It should have taken many times longer than that to do right.
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I agree with all and I’ll go a step further. Critics of the WC (which certainly includes conspiracy theorists) have always maintained that the WC was wrong. They didn’t believe it and/or trust it. Things just didn’t add up or as I like to say “fit”. Things like “3 shots in 6 seconds”, the head movement. The magic bullet being found, etc and the thinking was “well… if they got one thing wrong they may have got the whole thing wrong”.

The fact is the WC did get it wrong. In fact, they got a big fact wrong. The 3 shots in 6 seconds was wrong and it was a big mistake. However, that doesn’t change the forensics. That doesn’t change the other conclusions. Just bc they got that fact wrong doesn’t mean the whole thing is wrong.

Over the years conspiracy talk has died down bc the so called evidence of a conspiracy has been disproven. The radio belts from the motorcycle cops that captured sounds was proven to be incorrect.

At this point the conspiracy theorys live in the “unanswered questions” and speculation of “what if’s” not in facts.
 
Nosferatu said:
Through the city there wasn't a place where everyone knew they had to slow down to under 10 MPH.
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What was it about Dealey Plaza that meant they had to slow down as opposed to any other place on the route?
 
Guys, I’ve gotta bounce for a few hours. As always great talk! Appreciate the dialogue. I’ll jump in later to pick it up again.
 
Nosferatu said:
This has always been a conversation I/We can't win, if we could we wouldn't be having the conversation. So, I don't know why anyone expects us to have the answers. When you look at all the things as a whole it just doesn't add up for me.
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You still think this is a conversation to win? Give it up. No one is ever winning this things.

Only other thing I’ll add….it’s always not going to add up when looked at as a whole. If you’re good with that I’ll respect it. But, come on, you have worked on this a lot. You have shared notes. You haven’t always been looking at this as a whole.
 
dbldwn711 said:
At this point the conspiracy theorys live in the “unanswered questions” and speculation of “what if’s” not in facts.
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Works both ways. There is zero proof Oswald was standing in that window shooting at the President.
 
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