Win/lose was the wrong choice of words, you have the official story on your side, we have the holes in the official story on our side. If our side could prevail it would have already.
Sure I have, that's ridiculous!
What If JFK Wasn’t a Conspiracy
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Win/lose was the wrong choice of words, you have the official story on your side, we have the holes in the official story on our side. If our side could prevail it would have already.
Sure I have, that's ridiculous!
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT !
All right. I can respect this. Where else can it go.
@dbldwn711 called me out before for saying I’m a conspiracy denier. I’m not. I don’t think, and I’m still not fully convinced there was not more going on here. It just can’t be proven. I too can get to a point where you just can’t prove it. In that light I found this text helpful to at least circle around known facts.
Tying it all back to OP, no matter where you stand it’s a fair read to make if it’s ever of interest.
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not true.
there’s lots of “proof”
Forensic evidence conclusively tied Oswald to the snipers nest on the 6th floor.
His left palm print and index fingerprint were found on a box used to brace his rifle. His rifle was found on the sixth floor not far from the snipers nest. His palm print, fibers from his shirt and fibers from his blanket were found on the firearm. A gunpowder residue test confirmed that the rifle had been recently fired. The three shell casings found in the snipers nest were confirmed to have come from oswalds gun to the exclusion of all other guns. The brown paper wrapping that Oswald had been seen with earlier that morning was found at the crime scene. It measured 3 inches longer than his disassembled rifle. There were no curtain rods at the scene (as Oswald had claimed was in the brown paper) but they did find gun oil and oswalds finger and palm prints on the inside of the wrapping paper. In addition to the forensic evidence listed above you have the eyewitness testimony that Oswald was seen on the 6th floor by the last co-worker to leave that area prior to the shooting. Lastly, and probably just as important as all of the above, Forensic analysis of that entire area did not implicate anyone else as being in that area. In other words, the only forensic evidence found in that area belonged to Oswald. No other signs of anyone else being there was found.
It’s not that “the official version” is on “our” side. It’s that the EVIDENCE supports our theory of what happened. Again, if you have any EVIDENCE that would disprove ANY of the above I’m all ears. I’m looking for it. I’m not wed to it.
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I missed this comment. Zero proof? No matter where you land on what happened there is copious amounts of proof that he was there.
Add to the eye witnesses that saw him in the window before the motorcade got there. Witnesses near the building also looked up to see the gun barrel sticking out, and then pulled back through the window.
Evidence puts him right there all along.
@Orlando_Eagles @dbldwn711
I have used the term CIA inconsistently ITT. When speaking of the Family Jewels, overthrowing governments, drug/gun running, MKULTRA, and other things of this nature I am stating things done with the full authorization and approval of the CIA Director and his Deputies in the chain of command without even plausible deniability somewhere in the line.
When I say that the CIA could have been a participant in the assassination and/or had motive to kill him, I am speaking of individual employees(agents and the paid operatives they ran) that were in a position to carry it out without any authorization from above. Basically an opportunist as delusional as I believe LHO was. I do believe there were a few that could have pulled off an ambush but not the grand conspiracy that most believe. It would have taken hundreds of people across multiple departments of multiple agencies including the DOD, State Department, Treasury, DOJ, CIA and others to pull that off. It would have taken months just to set up and execute. That is just not plausible and someone like Ferrie nor his handler did not have that kind of stroke.
It goes back to the magic bullet. Damn I wish I could find that video where they recreated the shooting using ammo from the same batch the shooter used, same model rifle found in the TBD built at the same factory in the same year of that rifle, full human models of ballistic gel including simulated bones positioned correctly, fired from the same angle and distance(perhaps a History Channel show). The bullet recovered followed a remarkedly similar path as the magic bullet and looked amazingly close to the magic bullet in its flat distortion. I am convinced the shot was more than possible, it is highly probable. With other evidence and lack of contradictory evidence of any kind, LHO shot three times from the sixth floor window of the TSD IMO.
Then the only way that a conspiracy involving a CIA operative can be plausible would be if LHO was an operative himself. The more popular version is that LHO was in intelligence because of his Russian and Marxist activities at the base in Japan. The things that contradict this theory are that LHO would not a have been candidate for that due to his childhood mental health evaluations and the two convictions in courts martials within 90 days of arriving at his base ... one for accidentally shooting himself with an unauthorized weapon and the other for threatening the NCO that assigned him KP duty while he was awaiting trial ... would have gotten him dropped from any classified intelligence program.
Only once in a blue moon do I think that it is possible that LHO was an operative. That is based only on my distrust of the CIA and devoid of any supporting evidence. Even IF you want to say that the CIA was just developing a legend for LHO, the childhood treatment records easily counter that. I have had a secret security clearance and LHO would not have gotten one nor maintained one had he received it.
I have used the term CIA inconsistently ITT. When speaking of the Family Jewels, overthrowing governments, drug/gun running, MKULTRA, and other things of this nature I am stating things done with the full authorization and approval of the CIA Director and his Deputies in the chain of command without even plausible deniability somewhere in the line.
When I say that the CIA could have been a participant in the assassination and/or had motive to kill him, I am speaking of individual employees(agents and the paid operatives they ran) that were in a position to carry it out without any authorization from above. Basically an opportunist as delusional as I believe LHO was. I do believe there were a few that could have pulled off an ambush but not the grand conspiracy that most believe. It would have taken hundreds of people across multiple departments of multiple agencies including the DOD, State Department, Treasury, DOJ, CIA and others to pull that off. It would have taken months just to set up and execute. That is just not plausible and someone like Ferrie nor his handler did not have that kind of stroke.
It goes back to the magic bullet. Damn I wish I could find that video where they recreated the shooting using ammo from the same batch the shooter used, same model rifle found in the TBD built at the same factory in the same year of that rifle, full human models of ballistic gel including simulated bones positioned correctly, fired from the same angle and distance(perhaps a History Channel show). The bullet recovered followed a remarkedly similar path as the magic bullet and looked amazingly close to the magic bullet in its flat distortion. I am convinced the shot was more than possible, it is highly probable. With other evidence and lack of contradictory evidence of any kind, LHO shot three times from the sixth floor window of the TSD IMO.
Then the only way that a conspiracy involving a CIA operative can be plausible would be if LHO was an operative himself. The more popular version is that LHO was in intelligence because of his Russian and Marxist activities at the base in Japan. The things that contradict this theory are that LHO would not a have been candidate for that due to his childhood mental health evaluations and the two convictions in courts martials within 90 days of arriving at his base ... one for accidentally shooting himself with an unauthorized weapon and the other for threatening the NCO that assigned him KP duty while he was awaiting trial ... would have gotten him dropped from any classified intelligence program.
Only once in a blue moon do I think that it is possible that LHO was an operative. That is based only on my distrust of the CIA and devoid of any supporting evidence. Even IF you want to say that the CIA was just developing a legend for LHO, the childhood treatment records easily counter that. I have had a secret security clearance and LHO would not have gotten one nor maintained one had he received it.
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exactly!!
look, I’m ready to have a discussion about a conspiracy theory. TBH, I wanna believe in one. Remember, I held the belief in one for nearly 2 decades. Whenever I talked about the Kennedy assassination I scoffed at the lone gunman theory.
It wasn’t until I read case closed where I was confronted with EVIDENCE that I had to explain in order to uphold my theory did I conclude that I had been wrong.
Look, whatever you believe there are certain incontrovertible facts. They are president Kennedy and governor Connolly were shot. Additionally, a bullet hit a curb which caused some asphalt to get kicked up and this asphalt struck a bystander in the face casting injury. At a MINIMUM those things need to be explained. If you are gonna ascribe some theory to this case you need to explain those things. Once you start explaining those things there are other pieces of evidence that need to accounted for. I listed a bunch of them regarding the snipers nest. Whatever theory you come up with you need to account for those pieces of evidence as well.
It was that exercise that lead me to believe LHO acted alone. I still had questions but nothing else fits.
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ok. Who are they. Let’s go thru each one of them one at a time and assess their credibility. When did they make the statements? To who? Etc
Do you have the list of them?
It's all circumstantial.
Forensic analysis did not implicate anyone else being in the area. No other signs of anyone else being there was found. That doesn't seem odd? Nobody ever went in that room but Oswald? All the boxes in the room were brought in by Oswald?
The evidence shows what they wanted it to show, it's almost as if you guys don't understand how a cover up works.
This was going to be exactly my question. My first knee jerk to that was that there were witnesses pointing towards an area with no evidence a shot came from.
But, I don’t want to do that. Then I’m just locking down on my theory and that’s not conducive. I would be interested to look into this some more.
Well said….you raise a wrinkle that, as a thought exercise I could totally spend time on. Were there CIA assets that “went rouge” here?
Look, I’m never buying Oswald as an agent of anyone like you said. I just can’t see that. You don’t bring a guy like this into a conspiracy to steal an old ladies purse.
But, what if there was a cadre of agents going rogue on this…taking it into their own hands? Would they be brash enough to fold Oswald in (doubtful) or just try to follow his actions to match with your own (complicated).
And if so….how to fit the extra players into the evidence that is known. It’s a good questions
Behind the follow up car was 12 other vehicles. There were a bunch of people in these cars, the Warren Commission called six of them to testify of the six, four of them admitted to smelling gun powder at street level.
It wasn’t a room per se. The whole floor was one big room. Plywood was being laid to set up the whole floor. Books were boxed up because of the work. Being LHO filled book orders it wasn’t unusual that he was up there. All workers there left for lunch at noon and all testified they left him up there alone. No one else was moving in and out of there.
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appreciate the comments.
I’ve never believed that it was a “sanctioned” hit. Even back when I believed in a conspiracy. I always thought it was rogue elements of the CIA working with the mafia. Not too many conspiracy theorists think it was a sanctioned/authorized hit.
I never thought Oswald was CIA. After reading case closed I’m more convinced than ever. The book is good but the one “complaint” I have about it is the beginning is very dry. Why is it dry? Bc it painstakingly goes thru oswalds early childhood. Once you get thru it you left with the only conclusion that Oswald was not secret agent material. He was a guy, not very bright, just bumbling along in life. There is no way he was a covert operative. Nothing in his life suggests he was. In fact, everything else points to the fact that he wasn’t.
I’m still holding out for the possibility that Oswald was part of some very small group that wanted to commit a political assassination. Literally anyone could be part of that small group (cia, fbi, mob, Dallas pd, etc) but there is nothing official IMO.
Can’t tell you why you’ve never heard of him before.
I’m checking the index of the book on this. It’s a lot of text. Not finding luck yet but I’ll keep looking.
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this area of the 6th floor was very remote. It was more like a storage area. It was not frequented by lots of people. That’s why Oswald picked it.
Earlier you said, there’s too many unanswered questions which makes it impossible for you to decide. The post above seems like you have decided. You’ve decided it was a cover up. That is certainly your right but I’ll point out this:
on one hand you say “forensic evidence doesn’t prove anything” but then you say “the fact that there’s no OTHER forensic evidence is proof there was a coverup”. Do you see the inconsistency there? Also, we are talking about the snipers nest. Have you seen photos of that? Boxes were arranged to both conceal the window area from view AND inside the nest a box was used to brace to shooter. It is THOSE boxes that didn’t have anyone else’s forensics. Why would they if Oswald used THOSE boxes to conceal the window? The police aren’t saying there was no other people’s forensics ANYWHERE on the 6th floor.
So, you're saying that everyone who made a statement had their information taken and what they said and who they said it to was put in the official report and they were all called to testify? Or... are there some people who gave a statement that went against the narrative that were ignored and nothing they said was added to the any report and they were never called to testify?